You may need to reset password if you are having login issues.
Due to software update, some stored passwords may be in a format not readable to server.

the ford 302 v8 swap into an e28 w/getrag 265

E28 technical advice asked and given! Troubleshooting, modifications and more.
535is-pa
Posts: 1944
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 1:00 PM
Location: south central PA

the ford 302 v8 swap into an e28 w/getrag 265

Post by 535is-pa »

so swapping in ford v8 motors into e30's and e36's and even 2002's has become a common practice. im fascinated by the idea if i had a 318 e36 id have this swap done, there are a few references on bimmer forums about the swap in an e34 and a e32 that i haven't searched enough to find the threads yet at this point.

here is the e36 swap wright up http://e36v8.com/

so the normal engine swap procedure with custom motor mounts and possibly tranny mounts and custom driveshaft. should be observed, but the real question would be about oil pan/sump clearance and header/steering box clearance. but it you look at the e36swaps every one mounts a drivers side header backwards, it might clear the box, an e30 user used a e34 540 remote brake booster for clearance. seems like the engines everyone uses have a rear sump oil pan, however the older for engines apparently have a front sump oil pan. having never seen a ford oil pan i wonder what would happen here, asside from the steering box i think the largest obstacle would be that the 3 series cars have a front mounted steering rack and the e28 subframe is kinda far back for a rear mount sump. maybe.

seeing how i have an e36 and an e28 and that a 300hp 5.0 engine can be found in a junkyard, every one crashes their mustang after dumping 2 grand into the motor and not the rest of the car. im very interested in the swap but only after i saw 3 built 5.0 motors sitting at my local junkyard for $500 each have i givin this any serious thought. i could take measurements from my e36 to transpose to my e28. just gotta get thinking.


id go carbs or megasquirt but the oem ford wire up is not bad for e30's or e36's but if this swap can be done with out and insane drama as it seems possible with e30's and e36's then id completely lose interest in a turbo e28 and im sure i wouldn't be the only one.
Last edited by 535is-pa on Dec 04, 2010 5:15 PM, edited 1 time in total.
bmw4aaron
Posts: 1261
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 1:00 PM
Location: Fishersville, VA
Contact:

Re: the ford 5.0 v8 swap needs some e28 discussion

Post by bmw4aaron »

535is-pa wrote:so swapping in ford v8 motors into e30's and e36's and even 2002's has become a common practice. im fascinated by the idea if i had a 318 e36 id have this swap done, there are a few references on bimmer forums about the swap in an e34 and a e32 that i haven't searched enough to find the threads yet at this point.

here is the e36 swap wright up http://e36v8.com/

so the normal engine swap procedure with custom motor mounts and possibly tranny mounts and custom driveshaft. should be observed, but the real question would be about oil pan/sump clearance and header/steering box clearance. but it you look at the e36swaps every one mounts a drivers side header backwards, it might clear the box, an e30 user used a e34 540 remote brake booster for clearance. seems like the engines everyone uses have a rear sump oil pan, however the older for engines apparently have a front sump oil pan. having never seen a ford oil pan i wonder what would happen here, asside from the steering box i think the largest obstacle would be that the 3 series cars have a front mounted steering rack and the e28 subframe is kinda far back for a rear mount sump. maybe.

seeing how i have an e36 and an e28 and that a 300hp 5.0 engine can be found in a junkyard, every one crashes their mustang after dumping 2 grand into the motor and not the rest of the car. im very interested in the swap but only after i saw 3 built 5.0 motors sitting at my local junkyard for $500 each have i givin this any serious thought. i could take measurements from my e36 to transpose to my e28. just gotta get thinking.


id go carbs or megasquirt but the oem ford wire up is not bad for e30's or e36's but if this swap can be done with out and insane drama as it seems possible with e30's and e36's then id completely lose interest in a turbo e28 and im sure i wouldn't be the only one.
I would go with a (if it had to be a ford engine) 4.6L. aluminum block. Or personal favorite Chevy LS1. Gotta keep the front end light, remember these cars can go fast around corners too. :lol:

The LS1/t56 swap I did on a e24 fit great with corvette motor mount brackets and GTO front sump oil pan.
Snakeyestx
Posts: 2168
Joined: Jul 27, 2009 12:43 PM
Location: Houston, TX

Post by Snakeyestx »

I'm a bit suprised that Duke hasn't suggested the 347 street fighter stroker yet. That E36 was pretty mean in the video... a very tempting prospect indeed. :up:
stuartinmn
Posts: 8977
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 1:00 PM
Location: Minneapolis

Post by stuartinmn »

If you are going to go that route, I'd say a GM LS engine is a better choice. The small block Ford is a good little engine, but it's 45 year old technology - the LS engine has a lot more potential for power and economy.
535is-pa
Posts: 1944
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 1:00 PM
Location: south central PA

Post by 535is-pa »

stuartinmn wrote:If you are going to go that route, I'd say a GM LS engine is a better choice. The small block Ford is a good little engine, but it's 45 year old technology - the LS engine has a lot more potential for power and economy.
ls engines cant be had for beer though, however the swap seems similar from a days reading. i went an looked at my friends early 80's mustang and it has a front steer steering rack like a 3 series bmw, and i belive adam said it has a rear sump oil pan, he said that some cars with the early ford v8's have front sump pans and might even have steering boxes.

i found a t5 tranny and a stock 5.0 engine with all crap on craigslist for $200 if its there friday ill going to try an pick it up.
Tucker
Posts: 961
Joined: Nov 07, 2007 10:37 PM
Location: Los Osos, CA

Post by Tucker »

2002's? Really? I love me them 5.0 Furds, but anything like that in the nose of an '02 is just retarded. An E36 with a Ford or Chevy aluminum motor could be cool though. I'd wager that even though the 4.6 Fords are cool, , the LS1 would be more likely to fit and actually be serviceable. 4-cam V8's don't fit very well in cars intended for inline engines, M60/62 swaps notwithstanding.
535is-pa
Posts: 1944
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 1:00 PM
Location: south central PA

Post by 535is-pa »

missed out on a local 5.0 and t5 on craigslist but ive done some googling since my e28 dosnt feel like starting. the ford 302 and possibly some 351's are front sump and seemingly can bolt to a t5 trans. seems both are cheap as dirt. and many 302's are carbed not fuel injected. and possibly a 302 front sump an pan can bolt up to a later 5.0 ford modular engine. seems 302's can be had with about 220hp and 300ftlbs witch is a nice swap id say especially with no electronics. i still need to read through pages of ford crap.....

the dimensions dont seem to bad without measuring and judging from e30 fitment it cant be to bad off but the oil pan is what will decide the matter.


Image
wieght: 440/460lbs

Image
Borg-Warner T5 Dimensions

A = 19.5 inches
B = 7.2 inches
C = 14.5 inches
D = 24.7 inches
Weight = 75 pounds

still need a more 3D dimension's and bellhousing dimensions but maybe just maybe this isnt a hair brain idea.

so issues might be the brake booster and the steering box. but the passenger side shorty header on the drivers side might possibaly clear the steering box. if not then then that would kill the swap enless bill in mn's rack and pinion setup iis practical... a e34or e39? 540 remote brake booster could solve the booster issue if necessary obviously im considering a 528e chassis. enless someone carts off my e28 theres more to come on this.
wkohler
Posts: 50579
Joined: Oct 05, 2006 11:04 PM
Location: Phönix, Arizona, USA
Contact:

Post by wkohler »

Kyle suggests the power stroke swap. ;)
535is-pa
Posts: 1944
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 1:00 PM
Location: south central PA

Post by 535is-pa »

wkohler wrote:Kyle suggests the power stroke swap. ;)
that would be awsome! but a 1000lb engine that is like 3 feet wide dosnt exactly fit the bill.....


but.. i just found out there is a bellhousing for the getrag 265 for the ford 302, maybe just maybe its position would place the oil pan clear of the subframe...... could you imagine a ford 302 swap that bolts up asside from exhaust and motor mounts??

http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/DW ... etRag1.asp

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2899947
http://www.cobraclub.com/forum/general- ... boxes.html


"Rumor is; the Ford 302 CI V8 (4.95 liter to you Brits) is 50 pounds lighter than the standard M30. Top end HP could be enhanced but top RPM will never be a good. It would have LOADS more TORQUE. I'm guessing from some of the crate motors I've seen, about 350 HP and at least 300 ft-lbs (400+ Newton meters) of torque. Hedman Headers are only 1.75 inch from the exhaust port making the classic V-8 a nice fit into these cars. this is the same basic motor that won Le Mans (twice) in the Shelby GT40. With todays technology we could reap even more power. Lars of Bend Oregon is working out the bugs.

Also shown is the bell housing to adapt the 302 to 5 speed getrag.
THAT's what these E24s need -- brut power. Not overly sophisticated, but sure is fun.

http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=449973"

pic of said bell housing....
Image
however i still think a t5 is a bettoption as a custom driveshaft is better then a custom clutch since i cant find more info.
Hit Man X
Posts: 523
Joined: Jun 10, 2010 1:11 AM
Location: FUNKYTOWN

Post by Hit Man X »

Hmm, I have a spare 302HO in my garage and a roller 351W. People just about give away 528s too that barely run.

FYI, HO heads (E7TE) are shit. Spend money on some alu heads (power gains are nothing short of insane for the money plus less nose weight). Shop hard and you can steal some killer heads. I grabbed a set of TFS with some mild port work for $750 a few years back.

I paid $100 for that 97k HO block and $200 for the 351W intake to oil pan.
535is-pa
Posts: 1944
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 1:00 PM
Location: south central PA

Post by 535is-pa »

Hit Man X wrote:Hmm, I have a spare 302HO in my garage and a roller 351W. People just about give away 528s too that barely run.

FYI, HO heads (E7TE) are shit. Spend money on some alu heads (power gains are nothing short of insane for the money plus less nose weight). Shop hard and you can steal some killer heads. I grabbed a set of TFS with some mild port work for $750 a few years back.

I paid $100 for that 97k HO block and $200 for the 351W intake to oil pan.
wouldn't want to attack that engine with a tape measure would ya?

know if a 351 is externally the same engine?
Hit Man X
Posts: 523
Joined: Jun 10, 2010 1:11 AM
Location: FUNKYTOWN

Post by Hit Man X »

351W has a 9.5" deck height, the 302 has an 8.2" ... so it is taller and wider.

Which do you want me to measure?
535is-pa
Posts: 1944
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 1:00 PM
Location: south central PA

Post by 535is-pa »

Hit Man X wrote:351W has a 9.5" deck height, the 302 has an 8.2" ... so it is taller and wider.

Which do you want me to measure?
width and distance from bell housing connection to where the oil pan dips down.

im also concerned with the drivers side header area but i think id need machinist dimensions to get anywhere.
Hit Man X
Posts: 523
Joined: Jun 10, 2010 1:11 AM
Location: FUNKYTOWN

Post by Hit Man X »

Which part of the bell? The top bolt? :?

If you can take me a pic, it will help. I am visual.



The oil pan I have on the 302 is a car pan (Fox chassis) and I could probably get some dimensions/pics from under my F150 which has a different pan and is also a six quart pan versus five.

The Panther chassis cars (Towncar, Grand Marquis, etc) also have five quart pans. I cannot recall which side the sump is on those but I believe rear, but I did propel one into the high 8s in the 1/8th many moons ago LOL Ran well for an iron headed 306. :laugh:
535is-pa
Posts: 1944
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 1:00 PM
Location: south central PA

Post by 535is-pa »

Hit Man X wrote:Which part of the bell? The top bolt? :?

If you can take me a pic, it will help. I am visual.



The oil pan I have on the 302 is a car pan (Fox chassis) and I could probably get some dimensions/pics from under my F150 which has a different pan and is also a six quart pan versus five.

The Panther chassis cars (Towncar, Grand Marquis, etc) also have five quart pans. I cannot recall which side the sump is on those but I believe rear, but I did propel one into the high 8s in the 1/8th many moons ago LOL Ran well for an iron headed 306. :laugh:
unfortunately i dont have an engine to take a pic, but im trying to see the bottom of the engine to clear the subframe. so from the rear bottom of the engine to where the oil pan starts to dip down where the oil is.
Hit Man X
Posts: 523
Joined: Jun 10, 2010 1:11 AM
Location: FUNKYTOWN

Post by Hit Man X »

Hmm, okay I will take some photographs tomorrow and see if my photos/dimensions are the ones necessitated.

Do not forget, the pre '93 blocks came with TRW factory forged slugs too. :D
535is-pa
Posts: 1944
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 1:00 PM
Location: south central PA

Post by 535is-pa »

ok this is not insanity... it seems more and more practical the more research i do and the more measurements i take. i still need to measure the e28 engine bay a few more times and try to really work things out then get realistic measurements of the engine i could purchase there are 4 302's on my local craigslist $1500 for a newly built one $100 for one in someones garage, pretty good for more power then an m88 and less weight. alot of people have used a getrag 265 to make to other engines due to the removabal bell housing, mostly in the shelby cobra kit car community, there is a larger prevalence of jaguar 265's but there are several places that offer adabter plates for the bmw transmission.
Image
so you can see from this shot a bmw getrag 265 adapted to a ford 302. there is an adapter plate between the ford bellhousung and the gearbox itself, (note the sheet metal shifter)

clutch is seeming viable with off the shelf components, a ford clutch with splines t match the input shaft of the getrag. i need more information on this but its very apparently been done many times.




i just noticed a car with an lsx swap on ebay. its engine bay looks very neat for the larger engine, i see custom exhaust work but the engines nestles in the bay very well and the headers are not a rats next. the e36 method of using a passengers side "log" style manifold to bring the exhaust out the front seems possible as well.
Image
Hit Man X
Posts: 523
Joined: Jun 10, 2010 1:11 AM
Location: FUNKYTOWN

Post by Hit Man X »

Most Gen III GM manifolds flow well, some more than others like the late C5 ones ('01+ when the Z06 came out).

Anyway, did you get a pic of the area you need me to measure?
dhcg86
Posts: 267
Joined: Sep 04, 2010 9:55 AM

Post by dhcg86 »

please make a sticky if you do this

would be INVALUABLE
neilandbob
Posts: 21
Joined: Dec 15, 2010 5:31 PM
Location: Sheffield, UK

Post by neilandbob »

I had an e28 with a 350 sbc fitted. It was a bit of a squeeze but with some modifications to the cross member and the exhaust manifolds around the steering column it went in. It was fitted with a Supra manual box. Despite having iron heads the weight didn't affect handling too much and the car was very fast.
Franchise
Posts: 233
Joined: Sep 16, 2008 10:21 PM
Location: Bay Area Cali

Post by Franchise »

is this still in progress?

i'd love to do this exact swap at some point
Alfonso Bedoya
Posts: 1326
Joined: Sep 16, 2010 3:15 PM
Location: Van Isle, B.C. Canada

Post by Alfonso Bedoya »

My uncle (R.I.P. unka Steve) had had enough breakdowns in his XJS V12 Jaguar, so he got some one to put in a Chev V8, never had any V12 issues ever again. I'd like to see what happens here. please keep us in the loop. Thanks in advance.
Nick@SMS
Posts: 5
Joined: Apr 02, 2012 9:05 AM
Location: Sharonville, Ohio
Contact:

Post by Nick@SMS »

Anybody know if they make an adapter bell housing for a 4.6? That would save me time and money on my swap
StolenFox
Posts: 345
Joined: Apr 13, 2011 10:36 PM
Location: Aurora, CO

Post by StolenFox »

Nick@SMS wrote:Anybody know if they make an adapter bell housing for a 4.6? That would save me time and money on my swap
If memory serves me, the only seperate bellhousing with a modular ford pattern (4.6L, 5.4L, 6.8L) is for the T-45 transmission in the 96 & 97 Mustang GT's. After that they went to a 3650 which has an integrated bell. If your wanting to run a Getrag, the adapter will probably have to be custom made.

S.F.
jamesohoh7
Posts: 203
Joined: Oct 05, 2011 8:46 AM
Location: Katy, Tx

Post by jamesohoh7 »

I realize this thread is old as hell, but now that I've seen it b/c it was bumped, and read it, this is bugging me:

The pic above where the poster is stating that a Ford 302 is bolted up to a Getrag trans is incorrect. That's a Chevy motor. No, I'm not talking about the pic of the LS motor either... but the motor with the Edelbrock valvecovers. Chevy.

Yeah, I'm sure it's obvious to everyone else too, but it was just bugging me is all. :cool:
Post Reply