To those who flipped the throttle body on the M30 motor:

Discussion pertaining to positive pressure E28s.
alijonny
Posts: 5612
Joined: Apr 09, 2008 5:05 PM
Location: Chicago, IL

To those who flipped the throttle body on the M30 motor:

Post by alijonny »

How did you go about planing the surface to mount the TB on the opposite side? I have not yet talked to my machine shop, but the answer they always seem to have for me and my BMW parts is "we have no way of holding that in place". I think they are afraid that they will break something.
1. plane/machine it?
2. have someone tig a flat plate on?

and what was done about the throttle cable? universal cable?


thanks!
BadM535i
Posts: 465
Joined: May 23, 2006 1:18 AM
Location: Dearborn, MI

Post by BadM535i »

Simple... Here are some pics, hope they help.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

and for the throttle cable, one from a e36 m3 was used since it was a little longer.The motor that you see in the pic was fitted in a e30 but I am sure it would also work fine in a e28.

If the machine shop that your going to can't do this, then maybe you should find a different one.
Scottinva
Posts: 3663
Joined: Dec 07, 2008 7:32 PM
Location: Norfolk, Virginia

Post by Scottinva »

Just take your TB off, make a stencil, draw it onto the back of the intake manifold drive the 5 pilot holes. tap the 4 mounting screws, make a gasket(or buy one but im cheap). Then bolt that sucker on, easy :)
Coldswede
Posts: 6859
Joined: Oct 10, 2008 1:48 PM
Location: Back U.P. North,. Where the water's blue, the wind is free and seasons four.

Post by Coldswede »

Would you mind explaining the reasons for doing this for me?
Scottinva
Posts: 3663
Joined: Dec 07, 2008 7:32 PM
Location: Norfolk, Virginia

Post by Scottinva »

Coldswede wrote:Would you mind explaining the reasons for doing this for me?
Makes piping for an intercooler easier.
e30-m30_kid89
Posts: 436
Joined: Oct 20, 2008 1:17 PM
Location: Toronto, ON

Post by e30-m30_kid89 »

I'm planning to do this to my spare manifold i have as well. however, im going about it the more expensive way - Im gonna have a plate TIG'd on. Only thing thats really turning me off from doing the whole thing is the throttle cable situation.

One day...
Brad D.
Beamter
Beamter
Posts: 10735
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: San Antonio, TX
Contact:

Post by Brad D. »

Scottinva wrote:
Coldswede wrote:Would you mind explaining the reasons for doing this for me?
Makes piping for an intercooler easier.
Yup, that's really the only reason.
babisbabou
Posts: 365
Joined: Jul 15, 2006 6:43 AM
Location: Greece.athens

Post by babisbabou »

I have a spare intake manifold 2.5/2.8 and in the future, meaning i can get some free time i am planning on doing this!
Really is there a 7th injection valve (cold start ) on the 3.5 intake manifold???
Shawn D.
Beamter
Beamter
Posts: 21991
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Contact:

Post by Shawn D. »

babisbabou wrote:Really is there a 7th injection valve (cold start ) on the 3.5 intake manifold???
Yes, on the B32 and B34, but not the B35. It's under the throttle, at the bottom of the manifold at the front corner, near where the ICV hose enters the plenum.
babisbabou
Posts: 365
Joined: Jul 15, 2006 6:43 AM
Location: Greece.athens

Post by babisbabou »

Shawn D. wrote:
babisbabou wrote:Really is there a 7th injection valve (cold start ) on the 3.5 intake manifold???
Yes, on the B32 and B34, but not the B35. It's under the throttle, at the bottom of the manifold at the front corner, near where the ICV hose enters the plenum.
So cold start enrichment on the M30B35 engine is through motronic? (me and the M30 B34/B32 are jetronic.)
alijonny
Posts: 5612
Joined: Apr 09, 2008 5:05 PM
Location: Chicago, IL

Post by alijonny »

only thing I am afraid of is making sure the surface is straight otherwise I would do it myself.
Scottinva
Posts: 3663
Joined: Dec 07, 2008 7:32 PM
Location: Norfolk, Virginia

Post by Scottinva »

alijonny wrote:only thing I am afraid of is making sure the surface is straight otherwise I would do it myself.
It should be, plus you have a gasket for some flaw.
alijonny
Posts: 5612
Joined: Apr 09, 2008 5:05 PM
Location: Chicago, IL

Post by alijonny »

thanks for your input everyone!
Brad D.
Beamter
Beamter
Posts: 10735
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: San Antonio, TX
Contact:

Post by Brad D. »

babisbabou wrote:
Shawn D. wrote:
babisbabou wrote:Really is there a 7th injection valve (cold start ) on the 3.5 intake manifold???
Yes, on the B32 and B34, but not the B35. It's under the throttle, at the bottom of the manifold at the front corner, near where the ICV hose enters the plenum.
So cold start enrichment on the M30B35 engine is through motronic? (me and the M30 B34/B32 are jetronic.)
Yes, cold start enrichment is handled through the 6 primary injectors.
iamcreepingdeath
Posts: 442
Joined: Dec 28, 2008 10:03 PM
Location: Mayer, MN

Re: To those who flipped the throttle body on the M30 motor:

Post by iamcreepingdeath »

Allrighty gents, I am resurrecting this thread.

A few questions/concerns:
  • Regarding the 2nd post (w all the pics), how did you sand/machine/whatever the back of the intake mani to make it flat enough to make an air seal (with a gasket) for the TB? Seems like you wouldn't be able to get it flat enough with a sander/grinder, you'd have to machine it.
  • How thick is the casting where you drilled/tapped holes? How deep is the thread? 1D? 1.5D? Seems like it would be too thin to reliably thread into, but maybe not?
  • Does anyone else (besides E28goodies.com) sell blanking/spacer plates for this application? I haven't found anyone in the states that makes these...
  • What do you do about the coolant reservoir in an E28? It's right in the way. Is there another reservoir that can be used somewhere else?
angry_ass_official
Posts: 15
Joined: Apr 06, 2021 2:09 PM
Location: Colorado
Contact:

Re: To those who flipped the throttle body on the M30 motor:

Post by angry_ass_official »

Figured we'd chime in as we're working on this as a service and parts component set based on dimensions from a E34 Alpina B10 Biturbo. We've developed a fixture for the manifolds and we face them on a CNC to fit a M50 throttle body (makes throttle cables much easier) and we supply a interface plate that has multiple ports for vacuum and sensors as well as a beauty cover to hide the hoses and sensor wiring for the old throttle location. We also vaporhone to provide a as new finish. Anyway we're wrapping these options up and will be using it on our 535is build we just acquired. A few pics and answers to questions:

Image
M30 Mach 1
by 93FIM5, on Flickr

Image
M30 Mach 2
by 93FIM5, on Flickr

Image
M30 Throttle 1
by 93FIM5, on Flickr

ImageM30 Throttle 3 by 93FIM5, on Flickr

ImageM30 Throttle 2 by 93FIM5, on Flickr

ImageM30 Interface 1 by 93FIM5, on Flickr

Prototype customer photo in his E28.

ImageM30 E28 1 by 93FIM5, on Flickr

- We use a CNC with a larger endmill and then seal against a spacer plate to accommodate the M50 throttle and its linkages and use a gasket to seal.

- Casting is quite thin and its not ideal to just tap for bolts in a traditional manner from the bay side, we've mimicked the Alpina solution with a few tweaks. Might get 3 threads depending on the pitch.

- We will be offering a blanking plate with added functionality and a ready to go manifold as well as lines and a beauty cover, no need to weld and try to machine in your backyard. Just refining a few things to make sure we have the community covered!

- We are working on a good solution for feed pipes to minimize the impact due to the coolant reservoir.

Look forward to a good discussion on what the community needs and what we can help with!

- Burro Grande
www.Angry-Ass.com
Galahad
Posts: 496
Joined: Sep 06, 2016 9:08 PM
Location: Beverly/Worcester, MA
Contact:

Re: To those who flipped the throttle body on the M30 motor:

Post by Galahad »

angry_ass_official wrote: Jan 26, 2023 7:18 PM We are working on a good solution for feed pipes to minimize the impact due to the coolant reservoir.
Have you thought about using a m20 coolant reservoir?
M. Holtmeier
Posts: 3024
Joined: Mar 11, 2007 3:06 AM
Location: Dallas, Texas

Re: To those who flipped the throttle body on the M30 motor:

Post by M. Holtmeier »

Galahad wrote: Jan 26, 2023 10:52 PM
angry_ass_official wrote: Jan 26, 2023 7:18 PM We are working on a good solution for feed pipes to minimize the impact due to the coolant reservoir.
Have you thought about using a m20 coolant reservoir?
I found a solution that's worked for about 10 years now.
iamcreepingdeath
Posts: 442
Joined: Dec 28, 2008 10:03 PM
Location: Mayer, MN

Re: To those who flipped the throttle body on the M30 motor:

Post by iamcreepingdeath »

angry_ass_official wrote: Jan 26, 2023 7:18 PM Figured we'd chime in as we're working on this as a service and parts component set based on dimensions from a E34 Alpina B10 Biturbo. We've developed a fixture for the manifolds and we face them on a CNC to fit a M50 throttle body (makes throttle cables much easier) and we supply a interface plate that has multiple ports for vacuum and sensors as well as a beauty cover to hide the hoses and sensor wiring for the old throttle location. We also vaporhone to provide a as new finish. Anyway we're wrapping these options up and will be using it on our 535is build we just acquired. A few pics and answers to questions:

- We use a CNC with a larger endmill and then seal against a spacer plate to accommodate the M50 throttle and its linkages and use a gasket to seal.

- Casting is quite thin and its not ideal to just tap for bolts in a traditional manner from the bay side, we've mimicked the Alpina solution with a few tweaks. Might get 3 threads depending on the pitch.

- We will be offering a blanking plate with added functionality and a ready to go manifold as well as lines and a beauty cover, no need to weld and try to machine in your backyard. Just refining a few things to make sure we have the community covered!

- We are working on a good solution for feed pipes to minimize the impact due to the coolant reservoir.

Look forward to a good discussion on what the community needs and what we can help with!

- Burro Grande
www.Angry-Ass.com
Very very interesting!

Still not 100% sure on how you are attaching the M50 TB. Thru bolts from the inside of the manifold? Is that black spacer delrin? Or a softer material that acts as a spacer and a sealing gasket? Or do you have two separate gaskets in addition?

Also, cool website, never heard of it before, but i'll keep an eye on it from now on! ;)
angry_ass_official
Posts: 15
Joined: Apr 06, 2021 2:09 PM
Location: Colorado
Contact:

Re: To those who flipped the throttle body on the M30 motor:

Post by angry_ass_official »

Galahad wrote: Jan 26, 2023 10:52 PM
angry_ass_official wrote: Jan 26, 2023 7:18 PM We are working on a good solution for feed pipes to minimize the impact due to the coolant reservoir.
Have you thought about using a m20 coolant reservoir?
Have not sir! Not a bad idea will look into it.
M. Holtmeier wrote: Jan 27, 2023 7:57 AM
Galahad wrote: Jan 26, 2023 10:52 PM

Have you thought about using a m20 coolant reservoir?
I found a solution that's worked for about 10 years now.
Hahah not surprised with your builds! Guessing the strut bar reservoir?
iamcreepingdeath wrote: Jan 27, 2023 9:46 AM
angry_ass_official wrote: Jan 26, 2023 7:18 PM Figured we'd chime in as we're working on this as a service and parts component set based on dimensions from a E34 Alpina B10 Biturbo. We've developed a fixture for the manifolds and we face them on a CNC to fit a M50 throttle body (makes throttle cables much easier) and we supply a interface plate that has multiple ports for vacuum and sensors as well as a beauty cover to hide the hoses and sensor wiring for the old throttle location. We also vaporhone to provide a as new finish. Anyway we're wrapping these options up and will be using it on our 535is build we just acquired. A few pics and answers to questions:

- We use a CNC with a larger endmill and then seal against a spacer plate to accommodate the M50 throttle and its linkages and use a gasket to seal.

- Casting is quite thin and its not ideal to just tap for bolts in a traditional manner from the bay side, we've mimicked the Alpina solution with a few tweaks. Might get 3 threads depending on the pitch.

- We will be offering a blanking plate with added functionality and a ready to go manifold as well as lines and a beauty cover, no need to weld and try to machine in your backyard. Just refining a few things to make sure we have the community covered!

- We are working on a good solution for feed pipes to minimize the impact due to the coolant reservoir.

Look forward to a good discussion on what the community needs and what we can help with!

- Burro Grande
www.Angry-Ass.com
Very very interesting!

Still not 100% sure on how you are attaching the M50 TB. Thru bolts from the inside of the manifold? Is that black spacer delrin? Or a softer material that acts as a spacer and a sealing gasket? Or do you have two separate gaskets in addition?

Also, cool website, never heard of it before, but i'll keep an eye on it from now on! ;)
Correct, same as Alpina. Picture shows a mockup 3D printed spacer, production units are aluminum and are sealed to the manifold side.

ImageM30 Flipped Spacers by 93FIM5, on Flickr

Thanks appreciate the feedback!

- Burro Grande
www.Angry-Ass.com
Nanajoth
Posts: 1551
Joined: Apr 19, 2008 6:38 PM
Location: TX

Re: To those who flipped the throttle body on the M30 motor:

Post by Nanajoth »

M. Holtmeier wrote: Jan 27, 2023 7:57 AM
Galahad wrote: Jan 26, 2023 10:52 PM

Have you thought about using a m20 coolant reservoir?
I found a solution that's worked for about 10 years now.
Don't need another solution than that.
iamcreepingdeath
Posts: 442
Joined: Dec 28, 2008 10:03 PM
Location: Mayer, MN

Re: To those who flipped the throttle body on the M30 motor:

Post by iamcreepingdeath »

Can we talk more about the coolant reservoir? Does the res off an M20 E28 solve the issue? Any other solutions?
szacsi72
Posts: 219
Joined: Nov 13, 2022 3:41 AM
Location: Hungary

Re: To those who flipped the throttle body on the M30 motor:

Post by szacsi72 »

iamcreepingdeath wrote: Jan 25, 2023 1:23 PM Allrighty gents, I am resurrecting this thread.

A few questions/concerns:
  • Regarding the 2nd post (w all the pics), how did you sand/machine/whatever the back of the intake mani to make it flat enough to make an air seal (with a gasket) for the TB? Seems like you wouldn't be able to get it flat enough with a sander/grinder, you'd have to machine it.
  • How thick is the casting where you drilled/tapped holes? How deep is the thread? 1D? 1.5D? Seems like it would be too thin to reliably thread into, but maybe not?
  • Does anyone else (besides E28goodies.com) sell blanking/spacer plates for this application? I haven't found anyone in the states that makes these...
  • What do you do about the coolant reservoir in an E28? It's right in the way. Is there another reservoir that can be used somewhere else?
Hey Sam,

I'm personally using an E34 radiator with the integrated reservoir.
Get the kit from AAS, M50 TB will fit much nicer; M30 will be wacky with the throttle going all over the place (you can see my solution with that 3D printed hinge. Not nice). They're super nice people too!

Here's a photo of my setup. I'm using the M30 TB here; but I'm also ditching it to mount an M50 TB soon.
Image Image Image

-David
iamcreepingdeath
Posts: 442
Joined: Dec 28, 2008 10:03 PM
Location: Mayer, MN

Re: To those who flipped the throttle body on the M30 motor:

Post by iamcreepingdeath »

szacsi72 wrote: Feb 16, 2023 8:26 AM Hey Sam,

I'm personally using an E34 radiator with the integrated reservoir.
Get the kit from AAS, M50 TB will fit much nicer; M30 will be wacky with the throttle going all over the place (you can see my solution with that 3D printed hinge. Not nice). They're super nice people too!

Here's a photo of my setup. I'm using the M30 TB here; but I'm also ditching it to mount an M50 TB soon.
Image Image Image

-David
E34 radiator, eh? Interesting. I tried fitting an E32 radiator in my E28, and it was too wide. So an E34 radiator works? I may do that, if it has the integrated overflow tank. Do you use an E34 M30 rad, or M60? Or is there a difference?

Also, quite a beautiful engine bay you have there! One day I will make my engine bay pretty, but that'll be years down the road most likely.
Galahad
Posts: 496
Joined: Sep 06, 2016 9:08 PM
Location: Beverly/Worcester, MA
Contact:

Re: To those who flipped the throttle body on the M30 motor:

Post by Galahad »

iamcreepingdeath wrote: Feb 16, 2023 10:18 AM

E34 radiator, eh? Interesting. I tried fitting an E32 radiator in my E28, and it was too wide. So an E34 radiator works? I may do that, if it has the integrated overflow tank. Do you use an E34 M30 rad, or M60? Or is there a difference?
I tried fitting an e34 m50 radiator, it was too wide. Maybe the other ones work, I don't know. I ended up with a z3 1.9 radiator which hopefully is enough cooling but I haven't had a chance to find out yet.
Post Reply