FUBAR 3/30 Track Event and 3 clutch diff

[1st 5er]

... and pictars of the carnage?

[LeiseyJr]

... and pictars of the carnage?

http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?f=3& ... 2#p1466792

[mitch5]

I was reading through here looking for some suspension info but came across a picture of a 4 point harness installed without seeing a rollbar. I couldnt totally see how you had it mounted but i assume its the floor. From my knowledge thats a big no-no for safety as youll compress your spine in an accident, i would just run your stock belt until you can get a rollbar. I believe 30 degrees down behind your shoulders is the max allowed for a safe harness setup.

[LeiseyJr]

I also almost installed some 4 points today. We'll see.
Update by samleisey, on Flickr

I was reading through here looking for some suspension info but came across a picture of a 4 point harness installed without seeing a rollbar. I couldnt totally see how you had it mounted but i assume its the floor. From my knowledge thats a big no-no for safety as youll compress your spine in an accident, i would just run your stock belt until you can get a rollbar. I believe 30 degrees down behind your shoulders is the max allowed for a safe harness setup.

[Tiit]

I was reading through here looking for some suspension info but came across a picture of a 4 point harness installed without seeing a rollbar. I couldnt totally see how you had it mounted but i assume its the floor. From my knowledge thats a big no-no for safety as youll compress your spine in an accident, i would just run your stock belt until you can get a rollbar. I believe 30 degrees down behind your shoulders is the max allowed for a safe harness setup.

I’ve seen A LOT of people drive with 4 point harbess without roll bar. I’ve told some of them the same story and universally they all just roll their eyes. Nobody seems to care much. I don’t know how dangerous it actually is, but I’m going to install 4 point harness in my car before next track day. I’m tired of sliding all over the seat.

[mitch5]

Those people are simply ignorant if they ignore the advice. Heres a good link listing other reasons its a bad idea to have a harness without a cage. http://www.wildweasel.ca/HowTo/Auto/RacingHarness.aspx

If your sliding around that much then install a proper bucket seat and run your factory belt. A 4 point harness with a comfort e28 seat would be a bad idea.
i bought a used recaro pole position and it would be pretty hard to slide out of it


Any tech i have seen at any autox, drift ect will require a stock restraint system(seat belt) unless you have a properly installed harness, a floor mount is not proper and therefore should really never be allowed on any track. So my bet would be if you see someone running at the track it is because the tech sucks.

Another point to make is that most states require you to use the factory seat belt for your car be street legal, so if you were in a bad accident and the factory belt system was removed then insurance would findout most likely be able to deny you for coverage in some way.

[LeiseyJr]

Those people are simply ignorant if they ignore the advice. Heres a good link listing other reasons its a bad idea to have a harness without a cage. http://www.wildweasel.ca/HowTo/Auto/RacingHarness.aspx

If your sliding around that much then install a proper bucket seat and run your factory belt. A 4 point harness with a comfort e28 seat would be a bad idea.
i bought a used recaro pole position and it would be pretty hard to slide out of it


Any tech i have seen at any autox, drift ect will require a stock restraint system(seat belt) unless you have a properly installed harness, a floor mount is not proper and therefore should really never be allowed on any track. So my bet would be if you see someone running at the track it is because the tech sucks.

Another point to make is that most states require you to use the factory seat belt for your car be street legal, so if you were in a bad accident and the factory belt system was removed then insurance would findout most likely be able to deny you for coverage in some way.

I have a 3 pt belt and a bucket seat that just made the most sense. Personally I find 4 pts on stock seats stupid, however if someone wants to run them I couldn't care less. I have seen people in Japan doing some really stupid stuff on 4 pt mounted to the floor. Is it smart no, but some 4 pts have that designed into them. So there is give in an accident and stuff https://www.bimmerworld.com/Safety-Race ... pwQAvD_BwE. However people run 6pts with only a harness bar, and no rollover protection.

I'm just gonna say if it were a huge concern and a much bigger issues, all this would be mandated in tech.

[LeiseyJr]

Those people are simply ignorant if they ignore the advice. Heres a good link listing other reasons its a bad idea to have a harness without a cage. http://www.wildweasel.ca/HowTo/Auto/RacingHarness.aspx

If your sliding around that much then install a proper bucket seat and run your factory belt. A 4 point harness with a comfort e28 seat would be a bad idea.
i bought a used recaro pole position and it would be pretty hard to slide out of it


Any tech i have seen at any autox, drift ect will require a stock restraint system(seat belt) unless you have a properly installed harness, a floor mount is not proper and therefore should really never be allowed on any track. So my bet would be if you see someone running at the track it is because the tech sucks.

Another point to make is that most states require you to use the factory seat belt for your car be street legal, so if you were in a bad accident and the factory belt system was removed then insurance would findout most likely be able to deny you for coverage in some way.

I have a 3 pt belt and a bucket seat that just made the most sense. Personally I find 4 pts on stock seats stupid, however if someone wants to run them I couldn't care less. I have seen people in Japan doing some really stupid stuff on 4 pt mounted to the floor. Is it smart no, but some 4 pts have that designed into them. So there is give in an accident and stuff https://www.bimmerworld.com/Safety-Race ... pwQAvD_BwE. However people run 6pts with only a harness bar, and no rollover protection.

I'm just gonna say if it were a huge concern and a much bigger issues, all this would be mandated in tech.

[LeiseyJr]

Those people are simply ignorant if they ignore the advice. Heres a good link listing other reasons its a bad idea to have a harness without a cage. http://www.wildweasel.ca/HowTo/Auto/RacingHarness.aspx

If your sliding around that much then install a proper bucket seat and run your factory belt. A 4 point harness with a comfort e28 seat would be a bad idea.
i bought a used recaro pole position and it would be pretty hard to slide out of it


Any tech i have seen at any autox, drift ect will require a stock restraint system(seat belt) unless you have a properly installed harness, a floor mount is not proper and therefore should really never be allowed on any track. So my bet would be if you see someone running at the track it is because the tech sucks.

Another point to make is that most states require you to use the factory seat belt for your car be street legal, so if you were in a bad accident and the factory belt system was removed then insurance would findout most likely be able to deny you for coverage in some way.

I have a 3 pt belt and a bucket seat that just made the most sense. Personally I find 4 pts on stock seats stupid, however if someone wants to run them I couldn't care less. I have seen people in Japan doing some really stupid stuff on 4 pt mounted to the floor. Is it smart no, but some 4 pts have that designed into them. So there is give in an accident and stuff https://www.bimmerworld.com/Safety-Race ... pwQAvD_BwE. However people run 6pts with only a harness bar, and no rollover protection.

I'm just gonna say if it were a huge concern and a much bigger issues, all this would be mandated in tech.

[adam_poll]

How is a fixed back racing bucket considered safe without a proper roll bar or cage but a 4 point ASM harness not? That seat isn't going to give in a crash like a stock seat would as it is designed to not fail and keep you out of the roll cage in an accident leaving you just as vulnerable without the cage (car rolls, roof buckles, you don't move because the seat wont give and the stock 3 point has locked, snap goes the neck). I personally run the Rallye 3 in my E28 (properly installed with the rear of the harness going up to the C pillar, lap belt tight, shoulder belts taught) with E28/E30 sport seats with the stock seat belts still installed for everything but track stuff. In a roll over I am likely more vulnerable (but not anymore then a fixed back racing seat without a roll bar) but in every other situation I feel like I have improved safety over the stock 3 point belt (especially being 6'3" with long legs, with my seat properly adjusted the B-pillar seat belt mount is 3-4" ahead of my shoulder, not a good situation for the belts working properly in any style of collision).

I personally do believe in complete safety systems and there are really only two, one being a stock street setup (including folding stock seats and 3 point belts) or a full race/track setup (fixed back seats, 5-6 point harness, hans, helmet and a roll bar/cage depending on use) and any part of those systems being changed or not used leads to a compromise (e.g. roll bar/cage without harness, fixed seats and helmet = cracked skull). The first system is designed to let you move somewhat in a crash and ensures that the surfaces you encounter in the car are soft and the other is designed to not let you move so you do not come in contact with that hard roll bar/cage, the Schroth ASM belts are definitely designed to let you move in a crash and would be a terrible choice to install in the track system.

The car for me still needs to serve a purpose on the street and putting the proper track only setup into it would mean the car needs to be trailered to the track and that is not an option I have at the moment. The ASM harness gives me improved performance and safety in most situations with a compromise in one and that situation in particular is one I don't want to be in in any E28 without a roll bar. With the stock belts still properly installed any one riding with me can make that choice for themselves as to what they feel more comfortable with. I also won't be adding a lot more power over stock 535i levels until I do add a complete track safety system as I just wouldn't be comfortable pushing the increased speed without it.

Feel free to tear apart what I've said here, the consequence of that is we will all hopefully learn something and be safer/smarter for it.

Adam

[LeiseyJr]

How is a fixed back racing bucket considered safe without a proper roll bar or cage but a 4 point ASM harness not? That seat isn't going to give in a crash like a stock seat would as it is designed to not fail and keep you out of the roll cage in an accident leaving you just as vulnerable without the cage (car rolls, roof buckles, you don't move because the seat wont give and the stock 3 point has locked, snap goes the neck).

I have seen a Sparco seat hold up the roof in a 911 rollover, so yeah I'm vulnerable. I see your point. Hopefully I'll be over to lean forward if the situation unfortunately happens to me. I should be able to submarine out of my seat too in a rollover or in a crash. Usually you lean forward in a crash as well, so that might give me some headroom, I also am quite short and have quite more then a fist between my roof and helmet. The saftest is stock seat with 3pt or full rollbar with seat, harnesses and hans. Idk I might die, I guess.

[LeiseyJr]

Neat by samleisey, on Flickr

Neat by samleisey, on Flickr

Getting the motor out was quite easy, just pulled straight out no issues.
Documented failure is attached elsewhere on the forum.


Getting it in was quite the hassle, two things made it a utter bitch. The A/C line and the headers, since they are welded to the Y-pipe almost all the way to the transmission cross-member. I was kind've in rush. I wanted it running that day of course that didn't happen. My dad wanted to go to the gym during that time and my friend who was supposed to help went to the junkyard, so I decided to put it in solo. I got creative with bungee cords and rust holes to hold everything out of the way.

Oof by samleisey, on Flickr
Oof by samleisey, on Flickr

So I had the A/C line just completely in the way, brake booster hitting on the other side and I had to be able to slide the headers on with the used 1985 gaskets from Chumbucket motor. They wanted to keep falling off, so when I went to grab the nut gasket would fall off. Also couldn't really put my hand where I wanted to due to the A/C line. I got it eventually, it would've been impossible with the individual exhaust manifold gaskets I had on my motor. This is why I used the 1985 gaskets. Once I got two nuts on for the left and right gasket, I was in the money. Luckily Dad arrived home at this point and we squeezed the engine past the booster, I was able to lie under the car and loosen the engine mounts and guide it all together while he pried on stuff and lowered cherry picker.

Oof by samleisey, on Flickr

The stupid A/C line

Oof by samleisey, on Flickr
Oof by samleisey, on Flickr
lolgetrekt by samleisey, on Flickr

(See that stray green wire above, remember that now)
Engine all on the mounts, ready to be slammed back together. In my twisted head I imagined it all being assembled by that evening running and driving. After rushing to get trans in with shifter. Dad said it wouldn't run, so of course I said it would fire up once I put the fuel lines on, and fusebox connector/coil wires. Got that all together and guess what it didn't do. What happened was the connector, in the glove box the one that sends signal to the tach, C103 I believe. The green wire on it snapped right off at the connector. This wire somehow activates the main relay, and must've been why my car had cut out intermittently coming back from Austin. When wires touched together, ICV would buzz so that was the issue. At this point the power went out for two hours, and all I could do was tighten header nuts(couldn't raise lift, couldn't solder, couldn't charge my battery). So that's what I did until power came back on. We cut connector off Super Eta harness, and re soldered that one onto 1.0 harness. The car started right up,and proceeded to backfire quite loud with open headers in a residential area. The 5th and 6th plug wires were backwards, once swapped it idled perfectly. At this point I lowered my expectations and accomplished a goal so I felt complete, not running and driving but running nonetheless.

Then I came back the week after on Friday. I quietly buttoned everything up, it was quite peaceful and zen-like. I quite enjoyed it, everything fell into place it was at the point to put coolant in it. I then started it and it just idled and didn't overheat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-_Vrr6KiqI As usual the M30 cooling system didn't require that much bleeding if at all. The motor that carried me around when I was 2 will give me some miles and some more good memories. I did a loop around the neighborhood, everything seemed that same. This motor has some more grunt down low, that's for sure. I waited for traffic to die down, but I knew it was gonna rain the next morning. So at about 7ish, I went off on the long test drive and it did 150 miles no issues. I miss the cam, it dies at 5500rpm and just keeps tapering off after that. I don't know how you can rev a stock m30b34 to 6600rpm and not feel like a dick.

Alive by samleisey, on Flickr

Alive by samleisey, on Flickr

Alive by samleisey, on Flickr

It has 250 miles on it now. Finger crossed it will be able to commute reliably. It has a 900-1000rpm idle which I prefer. It hasn't overheated but I don't trust any of my fan clutches. So Andy, South26, should be sending one soon that's known good and I'll compare them all.

[Tiit]

I don't know how you can rev a stock m30b34 to 6600rpm and not feel like a dick. .

Can’t be done. It’s one of the reasons why I don’t like to drive my E28. Dogleg + stock b34 is lame combo.

[LeiseyJr]

I don't know how you can rev a stock m30b34 to 6600rpm and not feel like a dick. .

Can’t be done. It’s one of the reasons why I don’t like to drive my E28. Dogleg + stock b34 is lame combo.

Add a Shrick 284. My fathers 10:1 pulls all the way to redline, but he has b35 valves.

[adam_poll]

The motor that carried me around when I was 2 will give me some miles and some more good memories.

I like this line, I dropped the M30B34 from my Dad's E28 that he ordered when I was born into my 525i and there is something special about that.

Nice to see it back together.

Adam

[LeiseyJr]

I have had a very annoying throttle steer issue on the highway, for at least a year. It's been very progressive and since I am the only one that drives my car it just became a feature of driving the car. My dad hates driving it due to my super small seat.
Vid of Issue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVJYor2Y6lE

As of lately it has gotten much worse, to the point where on the highway staying in my lane was uhhh challenging to say the least. I assumed it was sub frame bushings, because I did the trailing arm bushings. However inspecting the 5 year old Powerflex subframe bushings revealed no play and visual inspection checked out. They looked brand new. Something was up though, so I pried the trailing arm bushings. I was quite upset after the discovery of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMXr5ySVqc8

Also found out my subframe was cracked *sigh*
Shitshow by samleisey, on Flickr

I have been wanting to upgrade to the 750 bushings, however with $300 in my name 2 weeks before my internship starts it wasn't ideal financially. It was a safety issue at this point though, so I ordered the bushings and was hoping I could do it in the car with dads tool. After dropping trailing arm enough to get tool was pleasantly surprised with this view.

Shitshow by samleisey, on Flickr


This is how both outer bushing looked, the left side only had play with pry bar. However both sides were FUBAR. So very glad I did it. It always amazes how many tools slowly appear out of the toolbox.
Shitshow by samleisey, on Flickr

I was successful at getting outer bushing to move and almost out in the car, but looking at inboard side I realized I was fucked and would have to undo brake lines and handbrake.
Shitshow by samleisey, on Flickr
Shitshow by samleisey, on Flickr

So out everything came. I was quite pissed off at this point, but it was less painful then I thought putting it back together later.
Shitshow by samleisey, on Flickr

Fire was generously applied to remove the bushings, because its easier then pressing them out. This picture is not OHSA approved.
Shitshow by samleisey, on Flickr


As of that point I did not have new bushings, so it was time to do some really shitty welds.
Shitshow by samleisey, on Flickr
Shitshow by samleisey, on Flickr
Shitshow by samleisey, on Flickr

They're a start... and then I threw sub frame back in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6UCkaEEKCs


The following day the bushings came in so they got pressed in
Shitshow by samleisey, on Flickr
Shitshow by samleisey, on Flickr
Shitshow by samleisey, on Flickr

After that it was all a blur installing it
Shitshow by samleisey, on Flickr
Shitshow by samleisey, on Flickr

I took it around neighborhood and was disappointed at first. It wasn't that different, and was expecting way more NVH with solid bushings. Once traffic died down I discovered that on the highway its a new car, it just cruises without constant steering input. It felt right. Amazing how gradual decay and human adaptation can ignore issues such as this. On my favorite back road, the car felt insanely good. It actually applied power coming out of corners, and was so much easier to drive. I actually got quite emotional due to how good it felt.

On the issue of why my trailing arm bushings failed, I suspect improper preloading. However the inside ones weren't falling apart like outside. I am glad I drove the car with failed bushings in a way made me really learn the car and have to drive through its issues.

This job was well worth the 3 days of work, hopefully it last much longer then the last set.

[LeiseyJr]

Car did great on track, no more man handling actually could drive smoothly. Motor decided to inhale oil out of VC though so, I pulled her in. $160 for 2 laps, but my suspension is feeling good so its good to know that.

Been dailying it to my internship, thats about it really. All thats next is new motor and maybe another drag link this time with heatshield though.

[LeiseyJr]

This 061 has just changed the engine, it feels alive and how it used to. I really do enjoy driving it again.

Two nagging issues currently, it might be burning coolant. I see no smoke in exhaust nor do I see a expanding coolant hoses. I am not seeing a leak, maybe I need to look harder. It could be the shit URO coolant level sensor just being annoying. I also don't think its the cap. I've emptied the overflow bottle, and filled it way more then it should last night. Some should burp into the reservoir, but if light comes on a week. This might necessitate the need to get the other engine swapped in faster if I conclude the head gasket on this engine is bad.

We'll see what happens though.

[athayer187]

This 061 has just changed the engine, it feels alive and how it used to. I really do enjoy driving it again.

Two nagging issues currently, it might be burning coolant. I see no smoke in exhaust nor do I see a expanding coolant hoses. I am not seeing a leak, maybe I need to look harder. It could be the shit URO coolant level sensor just being annoying. I also don't think its the cap. I've emptied the overflow bottle, and filled it way more then it should last night. Some should burp into the reservoir, but if light comes on a week. This might necessitate the need to get the other engine swapped in faster if I conclude the head gasket on this engine is bad.

We'll see what happens though.

I've seen cheap coolant level sensors not thread into the overflow correctly and be both the cause of the leak as well as the cause of a flaky measurement.

[LeiseyJr]

This 061 has just changed the engine, it feels alive and how it used to. I really do enjoy driving it again.

Two nagging issues currently, it might be burning coolant. I see no smoke in exhaust nor do I see a expanding coolant hoses. I am not seeing a leak, maybe I need to look harder. It could be the shit URO coolant level sensor just being annoying. I also don't think its the cap. I've emptied the overflow bottle, and filled it way more then it should last night. Some should burp into the reservoir, but if light comes on a week. This might necessitate the need to get the other engine swapped in faster if I conclude the head gasket on this engine is bad.

We'll see what happens though.

I've seen cheap coolant level sensors not thread into the overflow correctly and be both the cause of the leak as well as the cause of a flaky measurement.

Interesting, yeah this one has never thread in right. Not seeing any leaks around it, but never been pleased with the way its tightened. I have a "delete plug" for the sensor, probably pop it in there for now because that one does tighten until I get a actual brand sensor.

[athayer187]

This 061 has just changed the engine, it feels alive and how it used to. I really do enjoy driving it again.

Two nagging issues currently, it might be burning coolant. I see no smoke in exhaust nor do I see a expanding coolant hoses. I am not seeing a leak, maybe I need to look harder. It could be the shit URO coolant level sensor just being annoying. I also don't think its the cap. I've emptied the overflow bottle, and filled it way more then it should last night. Some should burp into the reservoir, but if light comes on a week. This might necessitate the need to get the other engine swapped in faster if I conclude the head gasket on this engine is bad.

We'll see what happens though.

I've seen cheap coolant level sensors not thread into the overflow correctly and be both the cause of the leak as well as the cause of a flaky measurement.

Interesting, yeah this one has never thread in right. Not seeing any leaks around it, but never been pleased with the way its tightened. I have a "delete plug" for the sensor, probably pop it in there for now because that one does tighten until I get a actual brand sensor.

My symptom was after a longer session on track, the threads would slip enough to let the expansion tank "burp" and leak once but cause higher than normal temperatures. Once I replaced with a tested good BMW sender, I never had the problem again.

Are you running coolant, or just water? It's a lot harder to find with just water.

[LeiseyJr]

This 061 has just changed the engine, it feels alive and how it used to. I really do enjoy driving it again.

Two nagging issues currently, it might be burning coolant. I see no smoke in exhaust nor do I see a expanding coolant hoses. I am not seeing a leak, maybe I need to look harder. It could be the shit URO coolant level sensor just being annoying. I also don't think its the cap. I've emptied the overflow bottle, and filled it way more then it should last night. Some should burp into the reservoir, but if light comes on a week. This might necessitate the need to get the other engine swapped in faster if I conclude the head gasket on this engine is bad.

We'll see what happens though.

I've seen cheap coolant level sensors not thread into the overflow correctly and be both the cause of the leak as well as the cause of a flaky measurement.

Interesting, yeah this one has never thread in right. Not seeing any leaks around it, but never been pleased with the way its tightened. I have a "delete plug" for the sensor, probably pop it in there for now because that one does tighten until I get a actual brand sensor.

My symptom was after a longer session on track, the threads would slip enough to let the expansion tank "burp" and leak once but cause higher than normal temperatures. Once I replaced with a tested good BMW sender, I never had the problem again.

Are you running coolant, or just water? It's a lot harder to find with just water.

Right now its just water pretty much, I'll get a BMW sender and green coolant go from there.

[Hit Man X]

Green coolant? Gross.

Beats no coolant I suppose.

[LeiseyJr]

Green coolant? Gross.

Beats no coolant I suppose.

I put in BMW coolant and water wetter. Overfilled the living shit out of it, bad idea Gatorade catch can bottle is almost overfilled. However. This morning on the drive in, light came on. I got to the parking lot, checked it. There was still a decent amount of coolant in there. So it's the sensor or the flaky wiring giving me a hard time.

I also weighed it 3100lb with 3/4 of a tank.

7/1 Update by samleisey, on Flickr

I did a valve adj, as well. It is not a pretty motor :/, cam has very slight ridges. I knew it had a hard life before me, and I am reminded of that. However its running good, and still a pretty quiet engine.

7/1 Update by samleisey, on Flickr

7/1 Update by samleisey, on Flickr

I am looking at getting some euro bumpers from Sherman here pretty soon, my bad rocker arm purchase is a bit of a delay. But what're you gonna do

7/1 Update by samleisey, on Flickr

[LeiseyJr]

Got another 061
Untitled by samleisey, on Flickr

Started hanging out with Porsche fags on Wednesdays
Untitled by samleisey, on Flickr

Dad and I comparing his Miller Tune to 061 BIN
Untitled by samleisey, on Flickr

I will be getting EPROM programmer to burn chips. I should be able to copy Dad's Miller tune onto a chip the values look very similar to the 061 tune. A little conservative, but in 100 degree heat as his daily that is ideal. Hopefully the Fritz Bitz chip works out, and I don't need to. I am preparing for it though.

Also had a big fiasco getting inspected. I was expecting mono wiper to fail, so I was put duals back on to make Tejas happy. So I went to first station and he said I can inspect you but you won't pass. He said, "exhaust and headlights". I replied, "I have a muffler." He said okay and looked around it and was pleasantly surprised brake lights all worked. He said inspection machine was broken come back Friday with non-cracked headlights.

I wanted it inspecting that day though. So I went to a station where supposedly they just passed my friends 300zx. They did not do that with mine, headlights was their complaint. Which is understandable because my tape is a giant red flag. Saying, "hey my car is shit. Look at my sketchy cracked headlights"
A lot of people ask me why they're taped. It's not for the look they were genuinely fucked, and I didn't want glass going all over the road. High beam are both cracked and drivers side now has a hole in it. Low beam is also cracked but no holes yet.

I've been looking for another set at a decent price, but this expedited that. I had to borrow Dad's headlights to pass. Inspector was so confused when I came back an hour later with non fucked headlights. Dad started looking and found a really nice set on ebay for $400, that he wants to throw on since he painted his car. So I'll be buying these that I borrowed for $200, when his ones from Ebay get here.

Untitled by samleisey, on Flickr

Untitled by samleisey, on Flickr

Dual wipers are staying on for roadtrip to Austin so my girlfriend doesn't have to stare at it for 3 hours. After that back to mono wiper. I also changed the coolant cap, realized original one was in the trunk. Throwing it on just to see if it changes filling up with coolant. The one I had on looks super cheap. However my father and I of course can't remember why we have two coolant caps sticking around. Presumably we removed them because they were bad, but then why hold on to it? We'll see how it goes I guess.