Maytag: The Alpine '87 529i

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cek
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Re: Maytag: The Alpine '87 529i

Post by cek »

Maytag just got "@Galahad's Blade Fuse Retrofit kit Protytpe V2" installed.

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This version differs from Prototype V1 that went in Minerva:

- Transistors automatically enable diagnostic LEDs only when the ignition is on
- Socketed LEDs
- 15A fuse bridging fuses 7 & 8 for US cars. Remove this fuse if the car is a Euro car.
- Better insulation up to to prevent accidents if shit gets dropped on it.
- Black instead of green

Installation took just about 3 hours, but I took tons of pictures along the way to help Galahad with his installation instructions. Worked perfectly (sans a minor issue with the status LEDs that he's going to address in the final version).

For Minerva, I did the 'deconstruction' of the bullet-style fuse holders with the fuse box out of the car (a complete box transplant). And Minerva had no "melty" because it was a brand new fuse box. But I did Maytag as most people will, in-situ. Also, Maytag has the classic "Melty" at Fuse 17 which most people will encounter. Happy to report going medieval on the bullet connectors while all the relay wiring is still in place was no more difficult than when the box was out of the car.

Some pics of the process.

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Melty
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This mod makes me mucho happy.

If you are interested in this mod, please email me at ckindel (at) gmail (dot) com so I can help @Galahad by doing some customer research (I have a survey I'd like you to answer).
Bonsaibacker
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Re: Maytag: The Alpine '87 529i

Post by Bonsaibacker »

Now that is exciting- looking forward to being a part of the roll out. Clean as always.
muleskinner
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Re: Maytag: The Alpine '87 529i

Post by muleskinner »

ooooffff....that's a lot of time, effort, and work put into this. Looking forward to the plug and play version once it's done.
cek
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Re: Maytag: The Alpine '87 529i

Post by cek »

All the suspension rework has left Maytag wandering. Yesterday I had my fave shop address that.

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I've been fighting some odd fuel system symptoms for a while:

1) Long ignition turn required after car has been sitting (but is still warm); feels like no fuel pressure in the rail and waiting for the pump to give 'er the gas.
2) When cold, tons of hesitation on throttle input. Gets better once warm.
3) When hot, surging idle (sometimes).

Seems fuel pressure related.

Jay suggested said he had similar symptoms that were caused by his single-in-tank pump having a leak in the hose that connects the pump to the hanger. So I pulled the TRE pump and inspected it. All I see is my fantastic workmanship; no sign of any way this could be leaking.

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I don't have a fuel pressure tester, so in the meantime I threw on the IE adjustable regulator I had originally used on Vlad. This seems to have helped the surging idle, but not #1 or #2 above. I'm going to actually put a pressure tester on there and also put in a spare 3.0 regulator I have.

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Any other suggestions on what I should test?
Crazy_Canuck
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Re: Maytag: The Alpine '87 529i

Post by Crazy_Canuck »

Test the coolant temp sensor, sounds like the computer doesn't know what the temp is.
cek
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Re: Maytag: The Alpine '87 529i

Post by cek »

Crazy_Canuck wrote: Mar 31, 2021 2:09 AM Test the coolant temp sensor, sounds like the computer doesn't know what the temp is.
Excellent suggestion. I decided to take the time to rule that out:

- Tested temp sensor. It reads correctly at ~68F and moves appropriately when temp changes.
- Tested ground to temp sensor (BR/OR). Good!
- Tested continuity of temp sensor wire to ECU (BR/RD, 325i ECU Pin 45). Good!

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cek
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Re: Maytag: The Alpine '87 529i

Post by cek »

Maytag seems to like Durango. Been my daily the last week or so. I only have room for one of my 'fun' cars at my house, and storage is 20min away, so each car gets a turn...

However, right before the cars were shipped I had a stall issue. And I still have the dreaded hunting idle when warm and have had a few more hard/no start situations. I put a new temp sensor in but that didn't fix it (I had forgotten i'd actually tested the old one... my memory sucks). I'm being lazy and haven't dove into doing a proper step-by-step diagnosis, but will asap.

In front of the new homestead:
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Downtown Durango:
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Fun little, high-revving M20 (still needs a tune and proper exhaust):
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Dat interior, doe!
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Tiit
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Re: Maytag: The Alpine '87 529i

Post by Tiit »

I do like the interior.
cek
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Re: Maytag: The Alpine '87 529i

Post by cek »

Working on trying to fix these runability issues again:

1) Long ignition turn required after car has been sitting (but is still warm); feels like no fuel pressure in the rail and waiting for the pump to give 'er the gas.
2) When cold, tons of hesitation on throttle input. Gets better once warm.
3) When hot, surging idle.
4) Once, after being driven hard for long period, stalled and then wouldn't start until cooled off.

What I've done:

- Tested/replaced engine temp sensor. Also verified both ground and the connection to pin 45 of ECU are good.
- Tried adjustable FPR (which, apparently, according to my "mye28" memory helper...this thread above) seemed to fix the surging idle. I've now got a standard OE 3.0 FPR on there and surging idle is def there.

I"m all ears for more suggestions. Apologies if you've already suggested something and I've forgotten...
Tiit
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Re: Maytag: The Alpine '87 529i

Post by Tiit »

Install wide band o2 sensor and monitor a/f ratio. You’ll get better idea how much and which way fuel needs to be adjusted.
richardb
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Re: Maytag: The Alpine '87 529i

Post by richardb »

Those wheels look excellent! So good. For what it's worth, my 533i idle control valve tested OK with the reading across terminals, also opened/closed with 12v applied, but it was still bad. Replaced my ICV and it resolved my high idle immediately. Perhaps you can test another ICV? I recall they're inexpensive for this year M20.
cek
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Re: Maytag: The Alpine '87 529i

Post by cek »

TFW you search the Internet for M20B27 e2i injector specs, and find a promising thread on RV3limited.com only to discover it was your own thread that you forgot about.

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But the good news is it helped me remember which injectors I used.
1st 5er
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Re: Maytag: The Alpine '87 529i

Post by 1st 5er »

cek wrote: Oct 14, 2022 1:11 PM TFW you search the Internet for M20B27 e2i injector specs, and find a promising thread on RV3limited.com only to discover it was your own thread that you forgot about.

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But the good news is it helped me remember which injectors I used.
LOL. :up:
cek
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Re: Maytag: The Alpine '87 529i

Post by cek »

1st 5er wrote: Oct 14, 2022 1:18 PM
cek wrote: Oct 14, 2022 1:11 PM TFW you search the Internet for M20B27 e2i injector specs, and find a promising thread on RV3limited.com only to discover it was your own thread that you forgot about.

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But the good news is it helped me remember which injectors I used.
LOL. :up:
Thanks again for the hat Sherm. I love it.
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1st 5er
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Re: Maytag: The Alpine '87 529i

Post by 1st 5er »

cek wrote: Oct 14, 2022 1:55 PM
1st 5er wrote: Oct 14, 2022 1:18 PM
cek wrote: Oct 14, 2022 1:11 PM TFW you search the Internet for M20B27 e2i injector specs, and find a promising thread on RV3limited.com only to discover it was your own thread that you forgot about.

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But the good news is it helped me remember which injectors I used.
LOL. :up:
Thanks again for the hat Sherm. I love it.
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:pimp:
cek
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Re: Maytag: The Alpine '87 529i

Post by cek »

Maytag got her turn at Durango Cars & Coffee yesterday.

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What a great car.

Still need to address:

- Stalling/hesitation due to leaking injectors
- ETA exhaust too restrictive
- Stock 325i tune holding her back

Besides that... effing brilliant driver.

She also is loving Gruntled HQ:

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Foonfer
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Re: Maytag: The Alpine '87 529i

Post by Foonfer »

I bought my M20B27 Supereta with 150K miles, put 20k more in 8 years, and idle was rock stable at all times. Swapped a M30B35 (inspired by your words and by your work on Vlad) and on day 1 I get the "surging idle when warm". I was a bit pissed to say the least (not at you).

So I went step by step, part by part, replacing and testing. In my case, what solved it was a combination of 3 parts: The ICV, and the Coolant Sensor & Coolant Sender at the front.

I suspect a 4th possibility, which is the presence of minimal cracks in the intake boot (between the AFM and the intake manifold).

Not sure if the Bosch ICVs are available for the M20B27, but for the M30B35 they show up "out of stock" everywhere I have searched (also, prices shown are all north of $600). I bought myself an used Bosch from Ebay (not good), a $35 Chinese one from Ebay (not bad so far, surprisingly), and a Löwe one (supposedly OEM replacement, haven't tried it yet but I find it highly sus that a "German" part doesn't show "Made in Germany" anywhere).

Here's an additional tip - it's a bit ugly: The ICV connects to the intake boot via ribs on the boot and corresponding friction ribs on the ICV body (similar to the way hoses connect to gas/water valves in a lab). Movement, vibration and age may wear out the ribs on the rubber boot. Add a small hose clamp around this connection, tighten it and test it out.

Hope any of this was helpful to you. I find idle issues extremely irritating - these are supposed to be "good" and "easy" motors!
cek
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Re: Maytag: The Alpine '87 529i

Post by cek »

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BoogerEater
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Re: Maytag: The Alpine '87 529i

Post by BoogerEater »

garage porn drool... where's the "like button" on this thing...
cek
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Re: Maytag: The Alpine '87 529i

Post by cek »

Back on the case of fixing Maytag's idle issue.

To recap, it only happens when warm. It is a dip, not a surge, and I sometimes get hesitation on throttle tip in. Idle stays stable at ~800rpm until engine is warm. Then it dips to ~500 and back up (sometimes surging past 800) every second or so.

What I’ve done:
- tested/replaced CTS. Tested wire to ecu.
- replaced injector seals
- smoke tested and found leak at valve cover breather. Fixed. Slight improvement.
- swapped icv
- swapped afm
- unplugging o2 sensor causes no change in idle
- unplugging icv makes no difference in idle

Next up is to put a 2nd o2 bung in and hook up my innovate lm-2 wideband.

Other ideas?
cek
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Re: Maytag: The Alpine '87 529i

Post by cek »

FIXED THE FU*KER!!!!!

I was poking through my stash and found a brand new Bosch 0258005324 O2 sensor.

Looked it up. It's the 325i sensor. Has the big round plug:

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The harness I used for the e2i swap was a SETA harness. For the small 4-plug sensor, PN 0258986506. I have no idea what this O2 sensor is for, but it's not an Eta or SEta sensor!?!?

Back then I guess I figured "So what, no big deal".

After swapping the plug on the harness to one from a 325i harness I had in my stash (very carefully), and putting the new 0258005324 sensor in, the surge is gone!!!

So, either that WAS the wrong sensor or it was bad.
cek
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Re: Maytag: The Alpine '87 529i

Post by cek »

I wasn't sure how I wanted to tune the M20B29. Recall I put the stock E30 325i ECU in. Options included doing a standalone, tuning the 325i box myself, going with one of the open source projects, etc...

I discovered that Classic Daily had taken one of the open source ECU projects and built their "BMW E30 M20 PLUG AND PLAY ECU" around it.

https://www.classicdaily.net/collection ... d-play-ecu

I figured it was worth a shot so I ordered one. It came Friday and I dropped everything to install it...

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The kit is advertised as PnP, and for the most part, it is...

The 3D-printed case fits exactly. Not a huge fan of 3D printed cases for things (questions about durability, they look cheap etc...), but it works.

Kit includes a vacuum hose and tee for tying into a vacuum for a built-in MAP sensor (vs MAF/AFM).

Jake's email to me fell into my junk folder so I missed him asking what intake I wanted; he sent one designed for a hot-air intake. He will send me the one that bolts to the OE M20 air filter housing with the AFM removed. That'll be slick. The tube includes a temp sensor with a pigtail that connects to the AFM connector.

The kit includes a new TPS with a 3D-printed adapter and connector extension. This connector extension is needed because the modern TPS fits upside down and the OE TPS wire is too short to reach. Nice touch.

The ECU will work with a narrow band O2 sensor, but Jake "highly recommends a wideband". The odd thing is the ECU doesn't *directly* support a wideband input, one has to use an external wideband controller. Jake says future versions will include the wideband controller circuitry. This means I needed to figure out how to get a wideband O2 sensor and controller in.

To get the car running, I used one of my Innovate LM2 wideband meters (and associated 4.9 O2 sensor) which has an analog out that can be plumbed into the AUX connector on the ECU. This is a hack: The LM2 is super sensitive to input voltage and doesn't provide an output signal unless it sees way more than 12V, it's plugged into the cig lighter socket which is never a great/solid fit (I've used some electrical tape to ensure it doesn't wiggle loose while driving), and was never designed to be a permanent install. I'm gonna get a different wideband controller (probably AEM) ASAP.

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The kit includes 3 Molex connectors and pins for the 3 plugs on the ECU: Aux, CAN bus, and something else I'm forgetting. In 2023 a Molex connector is an odd choice. But it works. Jake was super helpful in getting me a brain-dead sketch of what pins to wire in from the Innovate LM2.

By yesterday evening I had the car running again. I had to get Tuner Studio. I have now three tuner software packages: TunerPro/KDMAx (Tacoma), Tuner Studio, and ecuworx (S54). Sheesh.

Intially it was running insanely lean. It turns out the tune Jake pre-programmed was set to much higher flow-rate injectors. Once I used Tuner Studio to change the Injectors I used (325i Bosch 0 280 150 715 injectors, which have a rating of 149cc/min), it was much better... but now too rich (better than lean!). I'm no tuner, but was able to get the map to look good at idle. I did a test drive with some WOT and got Jake the logs and he's gonna get me a better tune today. I'll upgrade my injectors to a higher flow rate as well.

The LM2 / O2 sensor are also doing something funky where the AFR reading is jumping way high irregularly. Not sure what's going on there.

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So far, it looks like a good purchase. Jake needs to up his game on documentation. My feedback to him on this:

- Explain each part. E.g. why there's an extension for the TPS, that the temp sensor on the intake tube will plug into the AFM connector, etc...
- Make it clear all else that's needed, especially a wideband controller. It would have sucked if I didn't have a spare LM2 / O2 sensor lying around).

Hopefully, today I'll get a new tune that really lets me exercise it...
cek
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Re: Maytag: The Alpine '87 529i

Post by cek »

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Last edited by cek on Nov 20, 2023 8:40 AM, edited 1 time in total.
cek
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Re: Maytag: The Alpine '87 529i

Post by cek »

Wow. My memory sucks. Thank god (again) I'm such a verrucous thread poster...

I was looking to see if I had any other O2 sensors and found an AEM wideband gauge. Hmm... I vaguely remember having one of those. Searched mye28.com and...

From when I first put the M30B35 in Vlad:
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Turns out this gauge will work great with the Classic Daily ECU. No additional power is required (the Innovate LM-2 pulls too many amps), and while I won't really need a gauge while driving, having it tucked in the glove box will be ok.

Until the tune is nailed, this will be nice:
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I had snipped the wires for the AEM O2 sensor, so had to re-splice that (wanted it much shorter anyway). I also had to attach a Molex connector to the AEM power/output wire.
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This pic didn't capture it right, but the AEM gauge was showing 14.7 when I took the pic, proving things were working.
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All the flakiness in the lamba signal I saw with the LM-2 is gone. I just got back from a test drive and sent the logs & tune to Jake. He's looking at it right now...
Galahad
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Re: Maytag: The Alpine '87 529i

Post by Galahad »

you double posted. What radio is that?
It's interesting the AEM works so much better than the Innovate
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