Operation: Parking Lot Hartge: Update 9/21/22, Back in the saddle

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RonP
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Post by RonP »

Either way, they didn't come in a Hartge. Hartge only used BMW OEM. Not to say someone didn't order them special. I am very curious if this car was ordered from the Kohl Aachen dealer or was it a Performance Plus car?

I have seen only one 745i Executive with Recaro seats....obviously Buffalo hide. The car was ordered by the former owner of the Denver Broncos.
landspeed
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Post by landspeed »

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Last edited by landspeed on Sep 21, 2022 10:55 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Das_Prachtstrasse
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Post by Das_Prachtstrasse »

All the local Frank Gardener e28 "M528i's" had cloth versions of those Recaros. I had a set for a while in one of my other e28's, but preferred the driving feel of the BMW sports seats. Haven't ever come across a set in leather, they look quite nice.

In reference to what you said Ron, the Japanese car that donated a few of the parts to my Hartge build, a smashed e24 Hartge H6S, had the later, electric Recaros, similar to those used in the e34 Alpina's. Same seat as these, but in beige leather. Whether they were indeed original to the car however, I cannot say.

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I've also seen a reprinted Hartge build sheet, generated for a friend of mine when he was looking to authenticate a potential e30 H23 purchase. It was re-printed 18 months ago from cache by a Hartge employee named Michael Webber, and it shows the use of ASS brand cloth sport seats in it's spec. I'll see if I can locate a copy for you, as in at least one car they've used non-BMW seats, so perhaps it's possible they ventured into other models, also?
wkohler
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Post by wkohler »

Recaro seats are listed in the ETK and could be ordered as original equipment in the various cars so its not out of line to think these might could be original. I find it unlikely on this particular car just from a logic standpoint but I will never purport to be an expert on Hartge cars. Or even E28s for that matter.
Jelmer538i
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Post by Jelmer538i »

Ivo's Touring has BMW Recaro's that came with the car when new.
Boneyard Dynamics
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Post by Boneyard Dynamics »

You could order your BMW e23, e24, e28 and e30 with standard sofa seats, bmw sport seats and with Recaro sport seats. The Recaros where BMW online, but almost similar to other Recaros.

Also BMW Recaro sport seats where more expensive than bmw sport seats. could be the reason why the bmw recaros where not so often bought as the bmw sports.

sofa seats and bmw sport seats could be ordered with electric adjustment. the bmw recaro sport seats where only availible with manuel adjustment.

(there is a story about some euro M5s with electric recaros, but it s just a story and the guys in garching would have installed almost everything if you could afford it. they even painted one euro m5 in a mercedes green)

till august 82 or 84 you could get your recaros in every color. after that date you could offically only get black recaros. But their is always a but, if you begged enough you probably got also other colors, because from time to time you can find late e28s with non black recaros polsterd with typical late e28 cloth.

There are also different versions of BMW Recaros depending on which bmw they were fitted.

greetings from bavaria
wolfgang
Karl Grau
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Post by Karl Grau »

I think I have another brochure that has a different style Recaro, I'll see if I can find it.

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RonP
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Post by RonP »

Great, Chas....didn't I give you those? My point is/was that any and all e28s that left the factory had vertical pleats, not horizontal.
landspeed
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Post by landspeed »

I've never seen any Recaros that had vertical pleats, except maybe a couple newer OEMs and custom work.
RonP
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Post by RonP »

Really? So, you have never seen a 535is with sport seats?
Das_Prachtstrasse
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Post by Das_Prachtstrasse »

RonP wrote:Really? So, you have never seen a 535is with sport seats?
They're not Recaros.
Dinan e28
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Post by Dinan e28 »

Das_Prachtstraße wrote:
RonP wrote:Really? So, you have never seen a 535is with sport seats?
They're not Recaros.
I knew that was coming.
RonP
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Post by RonP »

Thanks, Simon. I really do think it's time to exit this forum and move on.
wkohler
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Post by wkohler »

Ron, everyone makes mistakes and miscalculations. I know I make plenty. You have likely forgotten more about E28s than any of us know, not to mention you have so much stuff going on right now that I don't know how you keep it all together. It's tough particularly with cars like Hartges since there are so many subtle individual differences on top of all the unique things from year to year on the E28 chassis. How many H5s have you seen exactly the same? It's not easy to keep everything straight.
landspeed
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Post by landspeed »

RonP wrote: I am very curious if this car was ordered from the Kohl Aachen dealer or was it a Performance Plus car?
The import and federalization was done by R.S.V.P. Automotive of San Diego in Nov. 1985.
Dinan e28
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Post by Dinan e28 »

Dinan e28 wrote:
Das_Prachtstraße wrote:
RonP wrote:Really? So, you have never seen a 535is with sport seats?
They're not Recaros.
I knew that was coming.
I don't think that was a malicious comment Ron.
Das_Prachtstraße is blunt some times but he is a good guy.
Das_Prachtstrasse
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Post by Das_Prachtstrasse »

No offense intended, Ron. Just clearing up a common misconception, of which I myself have been guilty of in the past. Your builds have been an inspiration to my own, and although it's coming together nicely, it'd never stand close to anything you've produced. Not to mention, I still have to reluctantly inform inquisitive minds that it's not a genuine Hartge, and that pains me.

It'd be a damn shame to miss out on the knowledge, and eye candy you share with us all, so don't think you're getting out of here that easily. ;)
TheE28Ranch
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Post by TheE28Ranch »

For the record, ;) this is my thread about the actual "Trey's Hartge", the '83 that was my first BMW:

http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=70 ... eet+hartge

It won't be leaving me anytime soon.

And I remember one of my first posts here seeking a seat motor for an "M5 Recaro seat". I spelled Recaro wrong in the title to boot. You want to talk about getting flamed from the guys... I stormed away from here that day, for maybe a day or week, but here I still am, for better or worse!
wkohler
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Post by wkohler »

My first post here was "WTB: Red E28 Recaro Seats." I was promptly corrected by Shawn.
1st 5er
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Post by 1st 5er »

Subscribed, for several reasons. :D
Pistonbroke
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Post by Pistonbroke »

Same here, subsribded.

Most unusual find, kudos to the new owner.

Interesting thread, GL with her.
landspeed
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Post by landspeed »

Is it correct to have the scalloped rear headrests? I noticed Trey's car has scalloped rears with Recaro front seats too. I want to keep it correct, but I like the look of the rounder, euro rear headrests.
wkohler
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Post by wkohler »

It is correct for the year. The non-scalloped ones came in in '85 or so.
landspeed
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Post by landspeed »

It's been a while, Being a new parent means, not much time or money for the projects.

Time for an update.

Spent the last several months resealing the transmission and figuring out it's quirks. Luckily, almost all the seals and gaskets were still available from BMW. The trans was stuck in gear when I got it, and the center selector shaft bushing had come loose with some damage to the bore that the bushing fits in. The selector shaft was also slightly bent. It appears that it had been rebuilt before, the synchros were in great shape, but whoever did it shouldn't be working on these transmissions. just got the transmission back in tonight. Even being a 2-piece, it still sucks installing it while on your back. Also curious, what's the consensus on fluid type in a dogleg?

Tomorrow night I will attempt to install the head. I just happened to have a B35 head in my garage(same as was in the car), just had to swap the distributor drive and coolant fitting at the back of the head.

I'm still on the lookout for the right set of wheels, but doubt I can afford them if they surface. For the time being, I'll be running a set of period correct 16" Momo Type 4000 5-spoke that I had laying around.

I hope to get it running by the end of the month, but it's looking doubtful.
wkohler
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Post by wkohler »

That's a positive update. Looking forward to more.

For oil, 1qt of Redline MTL and 0.7qt of 80wt gear oil. That's what Carl Nelson from La Jolla Independent recommends. It's worked well for me over the last few years.
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