GOD'S VENGEANCE - Complete Drivetrain Redux

Discussion pertaining to positive pressure E28s.
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Murfinator
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GOD'S VENGEANCE - Complete Drivetrain Redux

Post by Murfinator »

Perhaps due to my surname of Murphy, the law of the same name -Murphy's Law- has been in great affect in my personal undertakings. For this reason I've researched each aspect of the build over and over and sought the advice of those who've been there and done that. Many of these fine gentlemen have spent many hours on the phone and via email answering questions and elaborating on their writings as they pertain to this build. Despite this the gremlins will continue to do their dirty deeds and make life hell. With this as a cue I've decided to name the car: God's Vengeance. The name is apt because I've felt punished for attempting to create an automobile that excels at most everything: performance, comfort, amenities and aesthetics. Can one have the best of all worlds, have the cake and eat it too, in a single car? Perhaps not, but we shall see...

In the ~3 short years I've owned my 535 there have been many enjoyable moments behind the wheel: PCH, 5erFest Reno, weekend cruises through the canyons and track days. Despite these memorable occasions I've always had the lingering feeling of "if only I had more power". This is especially prevalent at the track when exiting a turn and when trying to keep up with the current generation of sports cars out on the road. I'm always wanting more power.
I've tried much of the low buck and easily installed options such as MAF kits, chips, exhaust, air filters and ignition systems. All these made little if any difference. I've even had some mild head porting and a Schrick 284 cam installed with little effect. I'm not satisfied.
Since I've developed a love for the E28 body style I'm not going to just sell the car and purchase something new. Gladly, I'm not afflicted by automotive-ADD. I simply do not have the time for multiple projects of this scope.

Following some research and test drives I've decided against purchasing an E28 M5 or performing an M30 to S38 swap. My understanding, which I've gained from those with much more experience than myself, is that the best route to achieve my goal of a tractable street car that can be enjoyable and competitive on the track against contemporary sports cars is to purpose-build a motor and drive train then add a moderate amount of boost. To this end I've spent the past several years researching and compiling parts. The idea is to take the best of what BMW offered for the cars of the era and make them better. I have no qualms whatsoever with hybridizing my car to reach the desired result. I'm no purist. There is however a limit to how much I'll spend and how much engineering and modification is reasonable to get things to work and fit properly. I'm also not giving up creature comforts. The leather, sound system, glass, seats, carpet and a/c are staying. I want it all.

The base upon which I'm building is a lightly abused M106 block and B35 cylinder head. Both will be thoroughly cleaned and inspected then bored, ported, balanced and rebuilt with the best parts to realize my goal. The entire valve train will be new and installed by Paul Burke along with one of his custom cam shafts. I've also decided with use an S38/B36 throttle housing assembly rather than the OE B35 intake manifold. Paul will add a custom fuel rail for the 65# injectors along with the B35 to B36 adapter plates. The boost will be supplied via a Garrett ball bearing GT4088R turbo, 11-blade billet compressor, 1.06 A/R divided exhaust housing, Bell air-air intercooler, dual Tial 38mm wastegates, Tial 50mm BOV, ceramic custom top-mount tubular and divided exhaust manifold, downpipe and 3" exhaust. The clutch/PP is a SPEC Stage 3+ kits which provided adequate clamping force and mild street manners. The transmission will be a rebuilt and resealed Getrag 265/5 close ratio 'dogleg'. This will be ideal for my monthly visit to the Miller Motorsports Park, my local track, a 4.48 mile road coarse. The power will be transferred to the rear wheels by a big-case s3.07, also freshly rebuilt.

The chassis is the one pictured below in my sig. Most of you know or have seen the car: purchased from Paul Ladue who purchased from a Burbank BMW shop owner who had rebuilt the motor and added enough juicy tidbits to get me interested despite previously not caring for E28's. Following two long stints on jacks to redo the interior/audio and then the suspension I feel it is a worthy example and excellent candidate for a much needed doubling of power output.

The most recent and decent shots of the car 'on the ground' are from the 2010 St. Paddy's meet in San Diego. Since this time aside from the drive train upgrades the wheels have been sold, front plate sold, fog lights and corner signals changed, brakes sold and upgraded, exhaust sold and upgraded and various interior changes have occurred as noted in the following pages.
My car is on the far right in most photos: diamantschwarz on black with M-System w/ throwing star covers and full Hartge body kit: airdam, side skirts and rear valance.

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Suspension:

Ground Control coil-overs (430f/325r lbs/in) at all corners with Koni Sport shocks. Strut towers were shortened 1.25" and reinforced in four locations and powder coated yellow. Suspension Techniques sway bars (22/16mm). Mason Engineering adjustable end links. Reinforced bar and link mounts. Forged aluminum 850i LCA's with spherical bearings, Lemforder UCA's with Moose's spherical bearings. GC camber plates up front and KMAC eccentric's in the rear with Ireland Engineering subframe bushings. Racing Dynamics front strut brace and IE rear brace. Following corner balancing the total weight with me in the driver's seat was 3,692 lbs (I'm 225 lbs), with a 50% cross, 3.4% front bias and 0.9% left bias. Front camber is -1.1 degrees and rear camber -2.9 degrees. Road and track testing reveals this set up is very nicely balanced. The UCA's and sway bars have not been road tested as yet since they were installed since the drive train was rebuilt. The smaller diameter sway bars will help the somewhat limited E28 unibody transfer power to the ground. This will most likely be a limiting factor when competing with AWD and late model vehicles.

Here are a few teaser pics of the work in progress. In the interest of time I'll wait and post more later. Thanks for the interest. Feedback and input is almost always appreciated. ;)
After Paul's magic:
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Last edited by Murfinator on Mar 29, 2014 2:43 AM, edited 10 times in total.
alpinewhite
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Post by alpinewhite »

:wow: Bad ASs.
cvillebimmer
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Post by cvillebimmer »

Do love looking at shiny new engine parts.

Are those PB pistons?
Murfinator
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Post by Murfinator »

cvillebimmer wrote:Do love looking at shiny new engine parts.

Are those PB pistons?
Yes. I've leaned on Paul much and have found him to be very free with his time and possess a vast wealth of information regarding every aspect of putting together a reliable high performance vehicle. Paul is currently working on the B35 head for this build. We're weighing options for cam profiles and valves. I'd like to get everything right the first time.
cvillebimmer
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Post by cvillebimmer »

If I could rewind the clock, I would have had him do my head as well. Shoulda, woulda, coulda...

Ditto on what you said about Paul and his work. What compression ratio?
Ben
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Post by Ben »

Very nice! Thats going to be an impressive build. Wish I had the discipline to focus on one thing at a time.
Murfinator
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Post by Murfinator »

cvillebimmer wrote:If I could rewind the clock, I would have had him do my head as well. Shoulda, woulda, coulda...

Ditto on what you said about Paul and his work. What compression ratio?
Looking at an 8.5:1 CR. Paul isn't concerned about detonation even with 91 octane pump gas and running up to 14# boost. I trust his judgment. I have E85 available as well as 111 octane as a backup. I've found nothing but extremely positive reviews of all Paul's work and advice. It was a no-brainer sending him the head.
Alex E24 E30
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Post by Alex E24 E30 »

Awesome. Very interested to see build progress. That's a slick looking chassis, too, to be putting a built engine in.


Alex
George
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Post by George »

Seems like your on the right path Mike. You'll need moar boost though. A 35R wheel will be fast at 14psi but not "to infinity and beyond!"
Corner Carver
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Re: In Search of More Power - Complete Drivetrain Redux

Post by Corner Carver »

Murfinator wrote: Gladly, I'm not afflicted by automotive-ADD. I simply do not have the time for multiple projects of this scope. :lol:
I wouldn't have any idea what your talking about :oops: :rofl:

Looking awesome Mike! Just one thing your missing.............More pictures!!!
I have seen this car go through so many iterations, each one better than the last. Can't wait to see the new one take shape. :banana: Lord knows you've been talking about it enough! ;) :laugh:

Oh, and BTW,the piston candy is grindy! :D
Murfinator
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Post by Murfinator »

Currently o-ringing the block with an Isky Groove-O-Matic I found new on eBay: "100-GRM “Sport Compact” Mini Groov-O-Matic
includes copper wire, Cylinder Bores and instructions". I'll either rent it out or sell it once I'm done with it.

The big case s3.07 went in without a hitch. No need to oval the mounting holes in the subframe. The sweet little rebuilt s3.25 will be going back to California soon to a good home.

Pulled out the G265/6 and Sachs clutch and M5 flywheel. Trans is for sale. Clutch is spoken for and in the market for a suitable replacement.

The motor is nearly ready to be pulled then its time for some cleaning.
mooseheadm5
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Post by mooseheadm5 »

I love reading stuff like this. Can't wait to see how it turns out.
wkohler
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Post by wkohler »

Mike, have you driven a car with a dogleg?
Murfinator
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Post by Murfinator »

wkohler wrote:Mike, have you driven a car with a dogleg?
Not yet, but hopefully sometime this summer if all goes well.
wkohler
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Post by wkohler »

I suggest you hang onto that overdrive transmission until you do.
mooseheadm5
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Post by mooseheadm5 »

I thought 265/5 internals were made of glass.
Murfinator
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Post by Murfinator »

I'm more concerned with proper clutch selection.

I've driven Getrag 280's, 260's and my 265/6. I'll admit that I was in part drawn to the 'Golden Monkey' aspect of the Sport transmission and I like the shift pattern. When an M535 drivetrain (dogleg and big case s3.07) with 30k original miles fell in my lap I had to bite. Figure if BMW felt to place these components in a sportier version of a sports car that unless I did something really stupid they would hold up.
wkohler
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Post by wkohler »

That car didn't have a turbo, though. Many 265/5s didn't hold up. That transmission was selected because of the close ratios, not strength. Overdrive units are much more resilient. The bearings and synchros are the biggest issue with doglegs.

My concern was in theory, not about whether or not the transmission will hold up. It's not as simple as a 1:1 5th gear and a different pattern. With a turbo, first and probably 2nd gear will be absolutely useless. You do a lot of shifting with a dogleg just in an NA car and you don't have many options for taller rear ends. 2.93 and a 2.79.

I'm not saying not to use it, but rather that since you have a nice overdrive unit that you know is good, it would be best to hang onto that until you're sure you don't need it. Also, it would help to just have it period since I'll bet it will be worth more to you when you need it than you're asking now.

Nothing negative is being conveyed in this post!
Murfinator
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Post by Murfinator »

Thanks Chris for the information and the advice. Since I've had the dogleg looked over and resealed I'll go ahead with my plans to install it and see how it performs. Worst case I swap it back out then offer it up for sale.

I also respect your expertise with regard to wheels. Given my goal of a street/track car that is also aesthetically appealing I'm weighing my options for wheels. I've been told that my staggered M-Systems are not the best choice if I intend to put power to the pavement. Ideally I'd run 18's on the street (looks) and 16's on the track (performance).
mooseheadm5
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Post by mooseheadm5 »

There are plenty of great track tires for 17s. You can get 265s on the 9" M systems. You can put plenty of power down with those.

If you get 18s, pony up for lightweight ones that are also very strong.
wkohler
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Post by wkohler »

x2. There are a helluva lot more wide tire selections for 17s than 16s. Actually for 16s, we're at about two.
Rich Euro M5
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Post by Rich Euro M5 »

wkohler wrote: My concern was in theory, not about whether or not the transmission will hold up. It's not as simple as a 1:1 5th gear and a different pattern. With a turbo, first and probably 2nd gear will be absolutely useless. You do a lot of shifting with a dogleg just in an NA car and you don't have many options for taller rear ends. 2.93 and a 2.79.
A G280 would be a better choice than a G260/6 due to 1st and 2nd gear being lower numerically. In addition it's a close ratio box in 1st through 4th, 5th is an overdrive. The obvious downside is availability and cost of a good used G280.

Rich

G260/6

1st 3.83
2nd 2.2
3rd 1.4
4th 1.0
5th 0.81


G280

1st 3.51
2nd2.08
3rd 1.35
4th 1
5th 0.81
marc79euro645
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Post by marc79euro645 »

I had a dogleg & hated it,1st & 2nd are too close imho, I ran it with 3.45 diff & 255/40/17. I now have a 265 od that works much better with the same rear drive. Can't wait to see some dyno numbers on your build
good luck
marc
Murfinator
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Post by Murfinator »

I'll be installing the 265/5 CR box and keeping the OD as a spare. I won't be in first except in the pits. The CR also suits the driving I'll be doing on and off the track. Fifth being strong at 1:1 and will be perfect for the freeway when I need to pass without a downshift or want to do a run into the triple digits.

For wheels I'm trading off diameter for sidewall. I'll be able to put down more power to the ground with a taller sidewall on a 16" wheel than I will with a shorter sidewall on a 17" wheel. I'll also squeeze as big a contact patch as possible with a little bending and grinding. 275/45-16's sound about right.
Last edited by Murfinator on Aug 21, 2012 3:23 PM, edited 1 time in total.
mooseheadm5
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Post by mooseheadm5 »

Drool!

With boost you may find that you will have different desires for gear ratios and final drive ratio. Probably a good thing to keep the 265/6 for now.
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