84 533i turbo build thread

Discussion pertaining to positive pressure E28s.
r.martin
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84 533i turbo build thread

Post by r.martin »

Hello all,

I am starting this thread to document this project and seek guidance.

I have an 84 533 that is in reasonable condition, and have the intention of doing a resto-mod turbo build. I personally have built only bikes until this point so this is relatively new ground for me. As of now I have the rear subframe rebuilt and the engine/trans out of the car. I am looking to remove or upgrade dated or unnecessary components, but would like to do my best not to take away from what BMW has done in the process.

As far as the engine goes I currently have collected the turbo manifold that can accommodate a 44mm external wastegate, the trigger wheel for the megasquirt and an engine gasket/seal kit.

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Last edited by r.martin on Jun 05, 2018 10:49 PM, edited 1 time in total.
r.martin
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Re: 84 533i turbo build thread

Post by r.martin »

A good friend of mine who is more familiar with building cars has suggested that I work on the engine prior to body, when rebuilding this block are their any weak points to consider? I would really like to slightly overbuild the engine to ensure longevity. Any guidance is much appreciated.

Respectfully

Rob
r.martin
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Re: 84 533i turbo build thread

Post by r.martin »

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tschultz
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Re: 84 533i turbo build thread

Post by tschultz »

Care to share some additional information, such as your power goals/boost level, turbo selection, headgasket you plan to use, engine management, use of the car, supporting mods that you plan to install (intercooler? brakes? knock sensing? boost control?)? Are you trying to build a drag racer, a road course car, a fun weekend car or something in between?

These details will help us better direct you from our experiences. the B32 engine isn't a bad choice, but depending on your vision, budget, and thoroughness, you could end up with wildly different results...
r.martin
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Re: 84 533i turbo build thread

Post by r.martin »

tschultz wrote:Care to share some additional information, such as your power goals/boost level, turbo selection, headgasket you plan to use, engine management, use of the car, supporting mods that you plan to install (intercooler? brakes? knock sensing? boost control?)? Are you trying to build a drag racer, a road course car, a fun weekend car or something in between?

These details will help us better direct you from our experiences. the B32 engine isn't a bad choice, but depending on your vision, budget, and thoroughness, you could end up with wildly different results...
Gladly! I assuming that it is not unrealistic, I would like to see close to 400 wheel torque. It is intended to be a fun weekend car with full interior etc, the turbo is undecided at this time, but I do have a an unused journal bearing unit with a .43 a/r compressor side, the engine management will be an ms3 https://www.diyautotune.com/product/ms3 ... 4-upgrade/, my budget is not unlimited but it is important for me to do things as right as I can. Coming from the carb'd bike world I must admit that I do not really grasp what knock sensing is. To these sensors somehow detect a detonation event and retard the ignition timing?
r.martin
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Re: 84 533i turbo build thread

Post by r.martin »

So I got the head off and wouldlike a perspective on the condition of the cylinders/valves, they look pretty rough to me, but I am not experienced enough to know if they can be cleaned and reused or need to be replaced. Also would like to know if it makes sense to order custom pistons or if the stock ones can handle moderate boost, my power goal is close to 400 if I can.

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r.martin
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Re: 84 533i turbo build thread

Post by r.martin »

Also at what point do i need a MLS head gasket?
Nebraska_e28
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Re: 84 533i turbo build thread

Post by Nebraska_e28 »

r.martin wrote:Also at what point do i need a MLS head gasket?
Over 10psi with good tune.
Under 5psi with mediocre tune.
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Re: 84 533i turbo build thread

Post by r.martin »

Nebraska_e28 wrote:
r.martin wrote:Also at what point do i need a MLS head gasket?
Over 10psi with good tune.
Under 5psi with mediocre tune.
Thank you. Is the M30B35 just a bored out version of the B32? would it be possible to bore out the B32 and fit it with B35 pistons?
Nebraska_e28
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Re: 84 533i turbo build thread

Post by Nebraska_e28 »

r.martin wrote:
Nebraska_e28 wrote:
r.martin wrote:Also at what point do i need a MLS head gasket?
Over 10psi with good tune.
Under 5psi with mediocre tune.
Thank you. Is the M30B35 just a bored out version of the B32? would it be possible to bore out the B32 and fit it with B35 pistons?
Yes possible to fit the pistons, but at that rate it'd be easier & more cost effective to get a b35. If the b32 is healthy I'd run that or rebuild. My current b32 is just over 300k miles & still boosted. Though it is getting very tired of my abuse.
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Re: 84 533i turbo build thread

Post by r.martin »

Nebraska_e28 wrote:Yes possible to fit the pistons, but at that rate it'd be easier & more cost effective to get a b35. If the b32 is healthy I'd run that or rebuild. My current b32 is just over 300k miles & still boosted. Though it is getting very tired of my abuse.
Glad to hear that! How can I determine if the current pistons require replacement? and what about the rust spots on the cylinder wall? is that cause for concern, or am I being overly cautious? Are you boosted on stock pistons?
Nebraska_e28
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Re: 84 533i turbo build thread

Post by Nebraska_e28 »

r.martin wrote:
Nebraska_e28 wrote:Yes possible to fit the pistons, but at that rate it'd be easier & more cost effective to get a b35. If the b32 is healthy I'd run that or rebuild. My current b32 is just over 300k miles & still boosted. Though it is getting very tired of my abuse.
Glad to hear that! How can I determine if the current pistons require replacement? and what about the rust spots on the cylinder wall? is that cause for concern, or am I being overly cautious? Are you boosted on stock pistons?
I'm no expert but your walls look a bit so/so. If there's rust spots, I'd say its probably best to hone & deck the block at minimum. That's what I did on my m106 build recently. My 533/b32 is bone stock everything & has never been opened. A healthy motor can handle boost on a good tune. Stock pistons are sufficient in most cases.
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Re: 84 533i turbo build thread

Post by Shadow »

Nebraska_e28 wrote:
r.martin wrote:Also at what point do i need a MLS head gasket?
Over 10psi with good tune.
Under 5psi with mediocre tune.
i heavily disagree with this.
"need" is when your gasket is going to blow no matter what
the stock gasket will handle anything pump can throw at it.

Even if you ping like crazy and blow the gasket it's better than blowing the pistons with
a gasket that would take the abuse.
The stock bolts have worked tq to 70, i think they started to stretch after 75tq. Tested them just to see.
27psi daily beating until pistons got hot and rings touched, all of them.
i believe stock was .018 i did them wide to be sure .024.
These are just my opinions and experiences.
r.martin
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Re: 84 533i turbo build thread

Post by r.martin »

Shadow thanks for the perspective.

I've been busy working on the body while I try to negotiate a trade with the machinist. The front end of this car was pretty bent up, I was unable to straighten it so I ended up cutting all the bad material out and re-making the bumper and grille supports.


Aligning the lights.
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I made the center removable to make pulling the motor easier.

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Not 100% yet but the idea is there.

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r.martin
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Re: 84 533i turbo build thread

Post by r.martin »

On another note, I was able to source a 240mm 6-puck clutch, the listing said the input shaft was 10 spline, so I took a gamble and bought it. Turns out it fits whatever transmission is in the e36 not the getrag 260 that I have. (I'm assuming what I have is a getrag 260 from information on the Transmissions FAQ page) Do people swap E36 gearboxes in to the e28? And if so is it as simple as bolting the m30 bellhousing to the gearbox out of an e36?
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Re: 84 533i turbo build thread

Post by r.martin »

Ok so while I was looking into the steering box I noticed that I had a damaged mount, and used that as an excuse to so a steering rack conversion. This is the is the same conversion that was well documented by Fukoa up in Chicago back in 2011. While I have not gotten to drive the setup on the road yet, it does feel really tight. The rack I used is same as Fukoa, found in the saturn Ion and chevy cobalt, as well as some Jaguars apparently??

As it began
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I cut the turned down section out after I had what looked like an acceptable start.
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r.martin
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Re: 84 533i turbo build thread

Post by r.martin »

Since my last post, I have finished shaving and painting the engine bay (Looks fair for my first time), made mounting brackets and installed e30 m3 seats, and most importantly had a reputable engine builder look over the engine. He tells me that the crank is in "excellent condition", and was impressed with the build quality of factory rods. However he says the pistons are worn beyond being usable. My dilemma is that my engine is an m30b32 as mentioned in previous posts, which I can't seem to find pistons for. It looks like custom pistons are the route I will have to take if I want to keep the motor.

I welcome build suggestions, here is where we currently are:

Parts I have:
HD valve springs
HD rocker arms that are visibly thicker than factory
All seals etc for m30b32

Does the b32 head fit the b35 block?

Is there a significant performance difference between the b32 and b35?

With forged pistons will the stock rods handle over 500hp?

Is there anything we should be thinking of when doing a crank up build of a b32 if we keep it?

Thanks
Rob
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Re: 84 533i turbo build thread

Post by marc79euro645 »

Heads are the same.
Not sure what to recommend on pistons.
r.martin
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Re: 84 533i turbo build thread

Post by r.martin »

marc79euro645 wrote:Heads are the same.
Not sure what to recommend on pistons.

Thank you for the reply, the machinist quoted $1100 for custom pistons from wiesco. He also suggested that we move the wrist pin locations to accommodate h-beam rods. Are there any additional modifications that it would make sense to do if we are goin this deep into the machining?
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Re: 84 533i turbo build thread

Post by Shadow »

idk. most people just boost the stock b34/35.
i'm making 460/460 on a miss matched engine all day with not allot of boost.
maybe u are going alittle wild for only 400 but it's all good and fun.

looking back at this are those autozone axles?
on my e30 those duralast axles broke first freaking mile.
oe is the best.
https://youtu.be/jvQI4HC_izU

on that 500hp question look at good & tight with stock rods.
i think they are good in my opinion.

my b35 actually made over 500tq 16.5psi on the dyno
but tuned it out, to spool alittle later to save my clutch / weak e30 drivetrain.
r.martin
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Re: 84 533i turbo build thread

Post by r.martin »

Shadow wrote:idk. most people just boost the stock b34/35.
i'm making 460/460 on a miss matched engine all day with not allot of boost.
maybe u are going alittle wild for only 400 but it's all good and fun.

looking back at this are those autozone axles?
on my e30 those duralast axles broke first freaking mile.
oe is the best.
https://youtu.be/jvQI4HC_izU

on that 500hp question look at good & tight with stock rods.
i think they are good in my opinion.

my b35 actually made over 500tq 16.5psi on the dyno
but tuned it out, to spool alittle later to save my clutch / weak e30 drivetrain.
Thank you shadow for the input. My axles are from Rockauto.
I got a text from the machinist saying that the rods out of my b32 are the same dimensions as H beam rods advertised for the B35. and for $350 more I'm thinking it makes sense to do them while the engine is apart. With forged pistons and H beam rods does 600-650hp become safely achievable? At that power level have I exceeded the strength of the factory drivetrain?
r.martin
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Re: 84 533i turbo build thread

Post by r.martin »

Does anyone have the trim from below the front grille?

I'm looking for this.

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r.martin
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Re: 84 533i turbo build thread

Post by r.martin »

Painted and installed the vacuum booster tonight. Here is the current status:

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r.martin
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Re: 84 533i turbo build thread

Post by r.martin »

For anyone curious about the project, it is still inching forward.

I had to put the car on hold for a bit, but the head has been bead blasted,
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and the custom pistons have been ordered.
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Re: 84 533i turbo build thread

Post by r.martin »

Pistons have finally come in still considering maxspeedingrods vs factory bmw rods. Also got the flywheel surfaced yesterday, and have a new OEM pressure plate to go with the custom unsprung 6-puck disc.

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