Introducing Double Vanos for S38/S14 engines by EuroClassicMotors

Specific conversations and info for the BMW E28 M5 and M535i.
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euroclassicmotors
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Introducing Double Vanos for S38/S14 engines by EuroClassicMotors

Post by euroclassicmotors »

Gents,

Introducing Double or Single Variable timing VANOS for BMW S38 and S14 engines.

It's time to present a heavy project I have been working on for longer than I can remember.

This is an absolute GAME CHANGER in S38/S14 world. The curves in the pic are an exmple only and it will vary depending on set up we chose.

The benefits are obvious.

• No more waiting for 4k-4.5k and up
• Will allow to achive peak/max HP without sacrificing the lower rpm range from <5500-6000rpm
• Smoother idle characteristics
• Radical Camshaft timing
• I will be able to provide min 110Hp/L+ on garage queen cars which are enjoyed on the weekend or daily to the grocery store.
• Will improve carbon build up in the exhaust ports
• Will pass the most strict emissions requirements
• Smoother idle but still S14/S38 characters
List goes on and on..

Testing will begin in several months and in the late summer will be available to customers.

Regards,
Anri



Image
Mike W.
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Re: Introducing Double Vanos for S38/S14 engines by EuroClassicMotors

Post by Mike W. »

Wow, I don't have, nor foresee having an S38 car, but double Vanos would be huge for those cars. I know from the M5X cars the effect it can have on the torque curve, and it's dramatic. I'm a little skeptical on the HP numbers, my impression is it affects the torque curve more than HP, but I won't claim to be an expert on it so I'm not saying it can't be done. A breathtaking price I'm sure, but you're probably getting a heart attack every time an engineering bill or production quote comes in.

Tip of the hat for this and I hope to see one of the cars at a show since I doubt I'll have an S38 powered car. Good luck!
euroclassicmotors
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Re: Introducing Double Vanos for S38/S14 engines by EuroClassicMotors

Post by euroclassicmotors »

Mike W. wrote: Feb 10, 2024 12:56 AMI'm a little skeptical on the HP numbers
Hi Mike,

Thanks for your reply. I have around 5k in Dyno testing on various setting
on the camshaft timing, exhaust system etc on S38 engine.
I have a lot of dyno data with various camshaft timing and curves to demonstrate
how it works.

As good as I can describe the definition it will 'allow you'.
It's the package not single component. One must sacrifice good chunk of peak HP in
order to make the mid range drivable! Peak HP and Mid range are linked together.

I can go in very deep details with curves and charts but its way too long to explain
and time consuming..

Regards,
Anri
tschultz
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Re: Introducing Double Vanos for S38/S14 engines by EuroClassicMotors

Post by tschultz »

I myself would love the technical details and proof of concept even though I no longer have an m5...

Is this an upgrade for s38b36 versions also? My brother has one of those...
euroclassicmotors
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Re: Introducing Double Vanos for S38/S14 engines by EuroClassicMotors

Post by euroclassicmotors »

Schultz,

tschultz wrote: Feb 10, 2024 11:53 AM I myself would love the technical details and proof of concept even though I no longer have an m5...
No need to proof from my end at the moment, in later stages.
tschultz wrote: Feb 10, 2024 11:53 AM Is this an upgrade for s38b36 versions also? My brother has one of those...
Yes, S38-B35, S38-B36, S38-B38, S14.

Regards,
Anri
Preyupy
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Re: Introducing Double Vanos for S38/S14 engines by EuroClassicMotors

Post by Preyupy »

I would love to see what the difference in the cam timing does to the shape of the torque and HP curves. The idea of VANOS ( or some version of variable cam timing) has been proven over the years. You don’t have to compromise idle quality and emissions for torque and HP (as much. I see you are starting with a lobe center around108/109deg but also going as low as91/92deg. I would be very interested to see what the curves look like compaired to each other. Will your system be variable in steps or just 2 position?

I have a spare S38b35 I am just about to start rebuilding and this is very interesting to me. I was thinking about what cams and pistons I wanted to run and thinking about valve/piston clearances. Looks like I need to calculate on a much wider cam timing variable just in case.
robertodonnell
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Re: Introducing Double Vanos for S38/S14 engines by EuroClassicMotors

Post by robertodonnell »

Keen to know and understand more about this Anri. When are you likely to be going to market? And where are you getting your Vanos hardware from?
euroclassicmotors
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Re: Introducing Double Vanos for S38/S14 engines by EuroClassicMotors

Post by euroclassicmotors »

Gents,


The gains are massive, I have extensive testing through the years. It is
way too long to share and time consuming for viewers only. Ofcourse
customers who will decide to do this Exotic project I will provide the
massive data with Dyno charts.

The main issues is this is going to be bloody expensive and for E28M5
community this is absolute deal breaker...

Must have:

- 2 Knock sensors (block machining process...)
- Full standalone system but not choice of Megadeath...To name few
Haltech, Motec, Emtron, Link in this bracket ECUs.
- Custom harness
- Sequential Ignition (my kit for S38-B35) https://www.instagram.com/p/CNxQxPmrQN7/
- Pistons with deeper pockets with increased compression
- Custom grind camshafts
- Tuning
- Injectors
List goes on and on...

Just the price for the above starts at $20.000 and up! The double Vanos is not in yet... :(
it will surpass $30k for sure.

This is Exotic project and not for the regular DIY garage engine build deal throw
new rings on 200k miles pistons, new gasket and slap it back together...

Initially I designed this for my personal cars M3 M5 M6s and my E24M6 full blown race car
with upcoming custom 4.0l S38 engine and just sharing for those who might have the
required budget to have this on the first BMW M5 the E28.

Regards,
Anri
Randomg
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Re: Introducing Double Vanos for S38/S14 engines by EuroClassicMotors

Post by Randomg »

Not sure why knock sensors, sequential ignition, or custom camshafts would be required... Vanos should be separate from these things and still allow you to benefit from moving camshaft timing to support high-end hp and low-end torque. Not many details here, sounds too good to be true. Hoping it's not though, would love to have a better version of the s54 under the hood.
Philo
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Re: Introducing Double Vanos for S38/S14 engines by EuroClassicMotors

Post by Philo »

Wow.., my S54 swap is crazy fun but can't imaging how fun a big bore S38 dual vanos engine turning 8k RPM would be. I've known Anri for a long time and if he says you need custom pistons and cams I believe him ! I think pistons are a must to provide clearance for the swing in valve timing so that means your tearing the engine down. So In my opinion why not do it right. The S54 runs 11.5 - 1 compression and churns 330hp at 8300 RPM. Apply the same compression and vanos to the S38 running Motec, etc.., and you'll be in M1 Pro Car territory.

This is one of the most exciting projects I've seen yet for the S38.

Killer, simply Killer. I want video !!!
Randomg
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Re: Introducing Double Vanos for S38/S14 engines by EuroClassicMotors

Post by Randomg »

Yeah, I did some more thinking about it after I posted, if it's anything like the s54, the front end of the s38 cams isn't going to work. Also distributor would be in the way if you wanted to go double vanos. Definitely an exciting idea, especially if there was enough testing with a re-enforced crank hub to rev to 8k safely.
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