Getrag G280/5 - ramifications of overfilling

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JND
Posts: 86
Joined: Aug 30, 2015 5:19 PM
Location: South shore, MA

Getrag G280/5 - ramifications of overfilling

Post by JND »

Good morning all,

Kindly seeking advice and thoughts on the repercussions of overfilling a G280.

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I had the transmission serviced with ATF after forming an opinion taking into account the handbook and other threads here.

The shop--run by two guys that I trust--replaced the output shaft seal, among other things. I left them with a picture of the manual page 77, filling capacities, for their reference on the diff., transmission, and coolant services they performed for me.

I'm aware (working knowledge) of how the transmission functions when it comes to how it lubricates itself. I also read others' accounts of the difficulty in adding fluid or maintaining the proper level due to the design of the transmission.

With that said:

I picked the car up from the shop and drove it 15 miles home.

When I received the bill, we talked through it and he said he put 3 quarts of ATF into the G280.

I didn't think much of it, until I got home.

When I got home, the car was giving off a very burnt smell, almost like oil dripping onto the exhaust from a leaking valve cover, just slightly different in scent.

I got out and noticed smoke coming from under the car. Cause: A lot of transmission fluid (viewable, a cup could be partially filled) was leaking onto the exhaust.

I opened the hood and smoke puffed out and up by the brake reservoir for a few moments until the pressure reduced and the exhaust cooled.

I had a lot in my driveway and the smell of burnt fluid lingered for a couple of hours around the car and from under the hood.

Ironically, it had never shifted better.

It felt great, even after I got home. Way better than the Redline MTF that was only 10k old. I started it once more to get it in position for the tow truck to pull it up, on, and back to the shop, and that brief cold-start still felt superior to before the service. Whether this is because it was just swimming in oil and not due to the change of fluid, I don't yet know, and will report back on. All gears felt exactly equal to shift into for once, and all replicated the same two-click engagement into gear, with not one looser than another.

With that said, the newly replaced output shaft was the weak link according to the shop, and it was the cause of the massive leaking after the service.

My questions to you all (on top of any advice you have to share) are:

1) Is 3 quarts grossly overfilling this transmission? Is the manual correct stating 1.3 quarts to be sufficient? If not, how much do you add to your G280 after flushing it?

2) Would filling a G280 with 3 quarts of oil result in this type of leak springing?

3) What do you think could need attention now as a result of this? Certain other seals? Potential damage that I couldn't feel or hear? Aside from a 2nd new output shaft seal that is already scheduled to go in. I haven't the ability to look at it from under a lift and evaluate other areas that could now be wet.

Thank you all,
Preyupy
Posts: 231
Joined: Jun 21, 2012 12:48 AM
Location: Issaquah WA

Re: Getrag G280/5 - ramifications of overfilling

Post by Preyupy »

It is virtually impossible to overfill it by that much. The filler port on the side of the gearbox is also the way to check the level ( the bottom of the 21mm diameter hole is the correct full level). They could not pump it into the transmission fast enough, pull the hose out and get the plug in place to have it that over full. You need to figure out where it is leaking from. They may have spilled on the exhaust, they may have forgotten to tighten the fill or drain plugs. They may have even messed up the new rear seal.
JND
Posts: 86
Joined: Aug 30, 2015 5:19 PM
Location: South shore, MA

Re: Getrag G280/5 - ramifications of overfilling

Post by JND »

Thanks for the reply. They mentioned that the output shaft seal could've been put in improperly, and that they plan to do it again first no matter what.

I was able to take some pics before I sent it back:

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Preyupy
Posts: 231
Joined: Jun 21, 2012 12:48 AM
Location: Issaquah WA

Re: Getrag G280/5 - ramifications of overfilling

Post by Preyupy »

Looks like the rear seal and probably the shift shaft seal have been leaking for quite a while.
JND
Posts: 86
Joined: Aug 30, 2015 5:19 PM
Location: South shore, MA

Re: Getrag G280/5 - ramifications of overfilling

Post by JND »

Yes you're spot-on.

I just went back to do a once-over of the records and they indicate that the shifter and output shaft seal leaks were detected about 10k ago, when the fluids were previously changed (Pennwood in the back, Redline MTF in the front).

The job was to replace the output shaft seal because that's what I was aware of at the time and what what they mentioned.

They told me they degreased the area after, so while an older looking mess may be from before, the wet stuff should predominantly be from this event.

There was no visible leaking or dripping on the floor of the garage prior to the service; though the typical stain of weeping seals on the transmission was present. I was watching it drip every other second when I got home after this service. The gravity and/or wind from the ride was sending the oil mostly to around the drain plug where it then dripped onto the ground once I got home.

So it's safe to say that it was a seal/plug failure, as it's very unlikely they got 3qts in there.

How much fluid brings it up to the fill bolt? Is it 1.3 or more?

Thank you for the insight!
Preyupy
Posts: 231
Joined: Jun 21, 2012 12:48 AM
Location: Issaquah WA

Re: Getrag G280/5 - ramifications of overfilling

Post by Preyupy »

I would have to go back and look. I fill it until it comes out the fill port, I keep the fluid in a tank with a pump on it so I have not measured it exactly
douglasM5
Posts: 3
Joined: Mar 23, 2010 1:19 AM

Re: Getrag G280/5 - ramifications of overfilling

Post by douglasM5 »

Was the output shaft seal even replaced? The bolts that secure the exhaust to the headers look like they haven't been removed in a LONG time - unlike the bolts post cats that look new. How did they get the drive shaft out without removing the exhaust up to the headers and if you could, why would you?
As mentioned, unless you laid the transmission on its side (or rolled the car on its side), there is no way to get 3 quarts of ATF in your transmission. How did the shop determine they used that much fluid?
A decent degreaser would have removed a lot of the old gunk that is still on your transmission support and your exhaust hanger that mounts to the rear of the transmission. I can't imagine working around there and not cleaning up those components (although I guess it's possible).
After you supplied the shop with the capacities (well done BTW!), how did the shop explain not using that information?

Your exhaust hanger at the transmission is broken. That's a 5 minute fix for even an novice welder.

You have a very nice car. You might want to start looking for another service shop for it.
Preyupy
Posts: 231
Joined: Jun 21, 2012 12:48 AM
Location: Issaquah WA

Re: Getrag G280/5 - ramifications of overfilling

Post by Preyupy »

I completely agree, I don't know how they could have replaced the rear seal and not cleaned up more of the back of the transmission and that exhaust hanger bolt has not been out in decades. I'm also thinking a different shop might be a good idea.
JND
Posts: 86
Joined: Aug 30, 2015 5:19 PM
Location: South shore, MA

Re: Getrag G280/5 - ramifications of overfilling

Post by JND »

I appreciate the help guys.

Even though I replaced a hanger or two, I thought it was hanging a bit low. I'll address the transmission area exhaust mount, thanks for that piece!

To add more context, the original exhaust was on its way out due to a leak so I organized a Billy Boat so the guys could replace it during the same job. That's to explain the new/old hardware.

It sounds awesome. Believe it or not (from the 15 miles I drove it), it wasn't nearly as loud as it is on the 635CSi, which shockingly makes it almost too quiet when weighed against my hopes/expectations...it probably (hopefully) means it's ideal in the long run though. I think it may sound about the same from the outside.

On a side note, after having both now running with Billy Boats, I believe one of the reasons for the drone that some experience and others don't could be that the BB designers possibly modeled their 635CSi exhaust off of an 88 (world bumper) vehicle, and the difference in length (protrusion of US bumpers) could make that difference in noise/drone. Any contributing experiences? Others have suggested similar.

The other rationale I've considered is that the 635CSi, an automatic, always hangs in the 1k-2k "drone zone" as I call it if under highway speeds and shifting itself. That's where the exhaust makes its aggravating noises. But the 635CSi is still definitely louder at idle from the inside than this one. The manual car is rarely in that zone with the throttle pressed (and not downshifting to continue on) due to the nature of it as well. It bucks when treated that way.

Hoping to hear back soon and get on to the other items!
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