Balancing S38 ITBs

Specific conversations and info for the BMW E28 M5 and M535i.
Das_Prachtstrasse
Posts: 5612
Joined: Sep 10, 2006 7:06 AM
Location: Melbourne, Doooown Under

Re: Balancing S38 ITBs

Post by Das_Prachtstrasse »

Fantastic. If you end up making enough to offer through Pauls' website, I'd be grateful to help make those mantis' legs stretch across the pacific. It would be nice to have one in circulation around Australia and I'll be in need of the tool very soon so please keep me posted. Literally.
HealeyBN7
Posts: 251
Joined: Feb 06, 2009 5:22 PM
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

Re: Balancing S38 ITBs

Post by HealeyBN7 »

Father's Day proved to be a productive time to work on the Manometers.

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tn535i
Posts: 5585
Joined: Jul 14, 2006 1:30 PM
Location: Middle Tennessee

Re: Balancing S38 ITBs

Post by tn535i »

So I already have my own 'home grown' way of doing this but I'm tempted. You have done a nice job including the design and name. I would probably balance much more often and mine is probably due.

Does it need to have the height you used or is that just in case one is left open so it doesn't suck all the fluid out ? In other words if you had a way to prevent an accidental open tube couldn't it be much shorter and shallow fill level? Is that something you have tested for? And I assume it will work just as well if you plug three and just use three (Triumph Triple) or two or four, other motorcycles for example.

At work a couple of us are working on what started as a bootleg project idea where I made the first few sets of parts on my lathe at home. Now it's got drawings and a machine shop making the first parts and we are talking to others for packaging and assembly. We don't know if we will sell hundreds or thousands but it's really more of a service to our customers and it is fun to see it take on a life of it's own .

If you can tap into the right outlets you might go into production yourself.
milarsky
Posts: 515
Joined: Jan 26, 2013 11:19 AM
Location: NYC

Re: Balancing S38 ITBs

Post by milarsky »

Dean,

Thanks so much for making these. Put me down for a purchase of one. Are they available yet?
best,
jeff
HealeyBN7
Posts: 251
Joined: Feb 06, 2009 5:22 PM
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

Re: Balancing S38 ITBs

Post by HealeyBN7 »

tn535i wrote: Does it need to have the height you used or is that just in case one is left open so it doesn't suck all the fluid out ? In other words if you had a way to prevent an accidental open tube couldn't it be much shorter and shallow fill level? Is that something you have tested for? And I assume it will work just as well if you plug three and just use three (Triumph Triple) or two or four, other motorcycles for example.
It is 32" tall. There needs to be a bit of height above the fluid level in the event the ITBs are wildly out of balance and the small tall tubes allow the vacuum to pull the fluid up far enough to make adjusting easy. I am assuming that all tubes will be connected and there will be a plug on the fill tube. There are multiple warnings in the instructions. Worst case is you draw in some oil and refill the manometer. I would think that wouldn't happen more than one time. I haven't done it yet, but I suspect it would be a "leaning experience". It is one of the reasons I decided to use Marvel Mystery Oil instead of a water based fluid. You never know.

I don't see why you could not use two, three, or four of the ports and just plug the other two. I have a set of Jenevy style ITBs on our Ford Zetec/Europa. I am planning to use it once I create vacuum ports. It should prove pretty universal.

To calibrate the tool the amount of fluid in the fill tube is critical as it the amount of sealed air above it the fill fluid. The tall tube makes it easy to add just the right amount. If you look closely at the photos you see two different fill tube heights. That was due to a small difference in the ID of the fill tubes. I suppose you could use a shorter fatter hose, or a small cylinder in the manifold, or make a larger manifold with a large capacity for reserve fluid.... Hmm.

It would be very exciting if these take off and I have to look for a manufacturing source. Congratulations on your project!

Dean
HealeyBN7
Posts: 251
Joined: Feb 06, 2009 5:22 PM
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

Re: Balancing S38 ITBs

Post by HealeyBN7 »

For those interested Mantis-Manometers are available for sale at:

http://www.mantismanometers.bigcartel.com

You will have an option to purchase just the manometer or the manometer plus the dial indicator with ITB mount. Price includes shipping.

Thank you all for your support and enthusiasm.

Dean

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HealeyBN7
Posts: 251
Joined: Feb 06, 2009 5:22 PM
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

Re: Balancing S38 ITBs

Post by HealeyBN7 »

If you tried to contact me through the web site, we just updated the bigcartel-Manometer email address and added payment options for Paypal/Visa/Mastercard/etc. We should be good to go for real orders. If you have any questions or concerns, please reach out via PM or here. I'll keep a close eye on mye28 to make sure we don't drop the ball in any way.

Thanks,
Dean
Karl Grau
Posts: 9708
Joined: Mar 10, 2006 7:34 PM
Location: Sandy Eggo

Re: Balancing S38 ITBs

Post by Karl Grau »

I'm in.
Thanks for doing this.
Das_Prachtstrasse
Posts: 5612
Joined: Sep 10, 2006 7:06 AM
Location: Melbourne, Doooown Under

Re: Balancing S38 ITBs

Post by Das_Prachtstrasse »

Fantastic. Dean can you please pass on package dimensions and weight so I can get an estimate for international shipping? As your website doesn't support international shipping I'll have it shipped through my freight forwarding address if it's not viable to ship via a US based friend of mine. Thanks in advance!
HealeyBN7
Posts: 251
Joined: Feb 06, 2009 5:22 PM
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

Re: Balancing S38 ITBs

Post by HealeyBN7 »

I just could not figure out how to enable international shipping. Thanks for hanging in there.

The best packaging I found is through a USPS medium shipping tube (or triangle). It is 36"x 6"x 6". Weight 3lbs without the dial indicator option. Getting the weight down with this new design should pay off with shipping savings for everyone!

The box says it is for international shipping...

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HealeyBN7
Posts: 251
Joined: Feb 06, 2009 5:22 PM
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

Re: Balancing S38 ITBs

Post by HealeyBN7 »

All paid orders shipped out yesterday. The exception was a special run this morning.

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Sales were brisk. The http://mantismanometers.bigcartel.com web site seems to be working well, but if you have any questions or would rather work directly with me via PM, that is fine too.

More supplies are on the way. Thanks all!

Dean
Karl Grau
Posts: 9708
Joined: Mar 10, 2006 7:34 PM
Location: Sandy Eggo

Re: Balancing S38 ITBs

Post by Karl Grau »

I got mine today and I'm very impressed with the build quality. I'm ordering O rings and am planning a valve adjustment. I've only put 6,365 miles on in the ten years I've owned it but I don't know when they were done last. :oops:

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HealeyBN7
Posts: 251
Joined: Feb 06, 2009 5:22 PM
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

Re: Balancing S38 ITBs

Post by HealeyBN7 »

Karl Grau wrote:I got mine today and I'm very impressed with the build quality.
So glad you like it. I just love that testimonial! Now lift those long tubes up on the air and get that magic red oil back in the reservoir;)

I was thinking about offering o-rings on the web site or throwing them into the mix somehow. Do you think that would be helpful?

Thoughts?

Dean
Karl Grau
Posts: 9708
Joined: Mar 10, 2006 7:34 PM
Location: Sandy Eggo

Re: Balancing S38 ITBs

Post by Karl Grau »

HealeyBN7 wrote:I was thinking about offering o-rings on the web site or throwing them into the mix somehow. Do you think that would be helpful?

Thoughts?
I think that's a great idea. That way, people can hit the ground running so to speak when they receive their package. I would have gladly paid extra for the O rings.

I made a hook for it using a piece from a plastic hangar:

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And a shackle from my sailing Box-O-Junk ®. The shackle doesn't have to be this long, it's just the one I had that worked best. I might dip the hook in Plasti-Dip just so it doesn't scratch anything.

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HealeyBN7
Posts: 251
Joined: Feb 06, 2009 5:22 PM
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

Re: Balancing S38 ITBs

Post by HealeyBN7 »

I love the hook idea. Too bad you had to take apart your sail boat:)

I kept grabbing short pieces of black 12 gauge copper wire from my scrap electrical supplies. I have wires hanging all over the place now.

I am getting close to understanding what changes are needed to produce an S14 version. I did some testing on my Zetec 2.0L Lotus with ITBs. I thought it was perfect with the German Synchronizer squirrel fan, but the Manometer proved otherwise. The vacuum signal was much stronger, so I have a dampener in the circuit and changed the fill volume, cap and tube size. The Lotus runs great now.

Some of the changes from the S14 testing I'll roll into the next batch of S38 manometers.

It would be fun to do a tech session now that there are several tools circulating with experienced enthusiasts.

Cheers,
Dean
MrZ
Posts: 113
Joined: Nov 01, 2013 12:21 PM
Location: Walnut Creek, CA

Re: Balancing S38 ITBs

Post by MrZ »

Just placed an order. I've been waiting ages to get something resembling decent idle quality after adding schrick 280s and 50mm throttle bodies to the stoker motor in the E34. I'll post a review and before/after results once I get some time to get it done.

Thanks Dean!
HealeyBN7
Posts: 251
Joined: Feb 06, 2009 5:22 PM
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

Re: Balancing S38 ITBs

Post by HealeyBN7 »

Excellent. I saw the order come in earlier today just before attending a memorial for a great car guy. I'll send you the tracking I find when it ships. It will probably go out on Wednesday. Be sure to reach out if you have any questions. I updated the instructions recently based on community feedback.

Dean
HealeyBN7
Posts: 251
Joined: Feb 06, 2009 5:22 PM
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

Re: Balancing S38 ITBs

Post by HealeyBN7 »

Just finished testing an S14 version of the Mantis-Manometer on a friend's E30 M3. We anticipated and encountered the same issue I had when testing it on my Lotus. The 4 cylinder vacuum pulses are more violent then the S38, so we had to install dampeners between the silicone lines and the clear tubing.

I'll post some photos, a video and update http://mantismanometers.bigcartel.com/ web site so you can see the S14 tune in action....as soon as I finish working on my range rover brakes:(

Dean
HealeyBN7
Posts: 251
Joined: Feb 06, 2009 5:22 PM
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

Re: Balancing S38 ITBs

Post by HealeyBN7 »

Here is a short video of the S14 version in use on an 88 E30M3. https://youtu.be/gKquThe88AQ

Dean
milarsky
Posts: 515
Joined: Jan 26, 2013 11:19 AM
Location: NYC

Re: Balancing S38 ITBs

Post by milarsky »

Hey Dean,

Looking forward to the Mantis!

best,
jeff
HealeyBN7
Posts: 251
Joined: Feb 06, 2009 5:22 PM
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

Re: Balancing S38 ITBs

Post by HealeyBN7 »

Jeff,

Thank you. According to USPS you should be getting your Manometer tomorrow. Watch for the triangle shipping tube!

Also, it was nice to learn that Rob in the UK received his manometer. http://bigcoupe.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.ph ... 66#p208066

And I shipped the first production S14 version yesterday.

Dean
http://mantismanometers.bigcartel.com/
Das_Prachtstrasse
Posts: 5612
Joined: Sep 10, 2006 7:06 AM
Location: Melbourne, Doooown Under

Re: Balancing S38 ITBs

Post by Das_Prachtstrasse »

I apologize for not commenting sooner, I mustn't have clicked send on the post - my manometer arrived a few weeks ago in one piece and looks to be very well thought out and assembled.. No spillage or leaks from the mystery oil, dial indicator and attachment worked well in setting the throttle plates. Haven't hooked it up to a car yet but I look forward to doing so!

Thanks again, Dean!
HealeyBN7
Posts: 251
Joined: Feb 06, 2009 5:22 PM
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

Re: Balancing S38 ITBs

Post by HealeyBN7 »

Taking the latest batch of S38 Manometer orders to the Post Office on Monday. Thank you!!!

Keep those ITBs in tune:)

Dean
HealeyBN7
Posts: 251
Joined: Feb 06, 2009 5:22 PM
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

Re: Balancing S38 ITBs

Post by HealeyBN7 »

I finally took some photos of Ben German's ITB adapters and tried them out on our S38. What a fantastic addition to the Mantis Manometer. The full laminated instruction set has been modified to include Ben's adapters as well as the Big Cartel web site. Ben's ITB adapters work so well, I am no longer offering the modified adapter I was providing with the earlier sets.

You can purchase three adapters and three dial indicators along with the manometer or just the manometer by itself.

You can see the updated web site here.

mantismanometers.bigcartel.com

Thank you Ben - Great addition to the ITB tool set!

See you at Vintage.

Dean

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MicahO
Posts: 2481
Joined: Jan 07, 2010 7:50 AM
Location: Warwick, NY

Re: Balancing S38 ITBs

Post by MicahO »

HealeyBN7 wrote:
See you at Vintage.

Dean
You coming to Vintage? Excellent! I'll have the kit up for tuning and demos, alongside Ben's various tools, in a vendor spot.
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