Raising window manually (cross posted)

E28 technical advice asked and given! Troubleshooting, modifications and more.
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milarsky
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Raising window manually (cross posted)

Post by milarsky »

Hello friends.

I am on the road from Santa Fe to New York, and my rear window will not raise. I am able to manually (with my arm) raise the window but it seems to slide down. Is it possible that I can manually crank this with the "z" tool in the kit? Can anyone quickly guide me on how to do this? I pulled the door card and protective plastic, but not sure where to insert the tool.

many thanks,
Jeff
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Re: Raising window manually (cross posted)

Post by 1st 5er »

Is the motor not working?
Has the window come loose from the regulator?
milarsky
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Re: Raising window manually (cross posted)

Post by milarsky »

Thanks for the reply. Not quite sure as I don't have my e28 manual with me on the road. The window switch seems to work going down, but not going up. When I pushed the window track up, it slides down.

jeff
Mike W.
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Re: Raising window manually (cross posted)

Post by Mike W. »

From here it sounds like the glass has come loose from the bracket it's supposed to be attached to. Not terribly uncommon. To fix it you have to take the door panel off, the vapor barrier off, glop some suitable adhesive, Goop, Mirror Mastic, etc, into the slot the glass goes into, work the glass in and raise the window. Then leave it raised for a day or three while the glue sets up and cures. No big deal at home, but a PITA for sure on the road.

And or... If you're still on the road and can get it up at all, get some clear package tape and from the inside tape the glass to the doorframe in multiple places with long tails going down the glass. Not really a repair, nor the classiest look, but sometimes on the road you do what you have to do to get home.
milarsky
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Re: Raising window manually (cross posted)

Post by milarsky »

Thank you Mike so much.

I will do this repair when I get home after Tuesday. The bad thing is I have no AC, which will be fixed, so the window really does need to be down anyway. I am in Arkansas and Tennessee tomorrow, should be 90 +. The only issue is keeping the glass up when and if it rains, which it probably won't tomorrow (fingers crossed)! I will circle back on your fix once I have had a chance to really diagnose the issue. The motor began to sound very tired this summer in Santa Fe. I pushed the window and the window rail up with my hand and arm inserted into the door frame. But it can and will slide down with gravity.
milarsky
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Re: Raising window manually (cross posted)

Post by milarsky »

Also Mike, can you possibly send a diagram from RealOem of what parts you are referring to?
1st 5er
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Re: Raising window manually (cross posted)

Post by 1st 5er »

If the glass has come loose from the rail, and the motor works, you may be able to get the glass up by lowering the regulator with the motor/switch, pull the glass up by hand and while holding it up and in place raising the regulator with the motor/switch and getting it to wedge up against the bottom of the glass holding it in place.
milarsky
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Re: Raising window manually (cross posted)

Post by milarsky »

Awesome. I will post my findings tomorrow evening. Thanks all!
Jeff
Fanclutchnut
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Re: Raising window manually (cross posted)

Post by Fanclutchnut »

Jeff,

We have a similar problem with our passenger rear m5. Like several have said, the glue which holds the metal frame to the bottom of the glass has come apart. You can carefully raise the glass by hand and either tape it in place or wedge something under it inside the door. Ours is being held up by the wheel that attaches to the frame that is glued to the glass. This is the way we received the car but we’re fixing it soon.
Blue Shadow
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Re: Raising window manually (cross posted)

Post by Blue Shadow »

I'd pull the door panel and vapor shield and have a look at what is going on. The glass came loose from the piece that rides with the window regulator is possible and maybe a kluge could be done to allow it to stay in position to lift the glass. Just taping it in place might work until you have time to correct this issue by gluing the two pads back onto the glass.

If the motor is not getting power to lift but is getting power to lower, switches cause this, you can power the motor with 12V from the battery. Voltmeter leads will get the power to the pin and pin socket on the motor connector.

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showpa ... Id=51_0368'
shows the bar attached to the glass that is attached to the motor frame.

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showpa ... Id=51_0372 shows the motor assembly...the top bar in each motor shown (front and rear) is where the bar on the window is attached.
Last edited by Blue Shadow on Sep 04, 2022 10:48 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Panici
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Re: Raising window manually (cross posted)

Post by Panici »

Blue Shadow wrote: Aug 29, 2022 1:24 PM If the motor is not getting power to lift but is getting power to lower, switches cause this, you can power the motor with 12V from the battery. Voltmeter leads will get the power to the pin and pin socket on the motor connector
Just to build on this, you sometimes can address this on the road by swapping switches side-to-side or front-to-rear.

When back home, the switch can be taken apart and cleaned.
These are the same switches as used in the E30 and there are definitely DIY guides out there.
milarsky
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Re: Raising window manually (cross posted)

Post by milarsky »

Panici wrote: Aug 30, 2022 1:16 PM
Blue Shadow wrote: Aug 29, 2022 1:24 PM If the motor is not getting power to lift but is getting power to lower, switches cause this, you can power the motor with 12V from the battery. Voltmeter leads will get the power to the pin and pin socket on the motor connector
Just to build on this, you sometimes can address this on the road by swapping switches side-to-side or front-to-rear.

When back home, the switch can be taken apart and cleaned.
These are the same switches as used in the E30 and there are definitely DIY guides out there.
Great idea, but on both front and rear switches, the "up" is not working. I am pretty sure the entire mechanism with motor has to come out, and YES, the glue HAS come loose. I also think various plastic pieces have come loose. Any the grease has seized up, and........
milarsky
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Re: Raising window manually (cross posted)

Post by milarsky »

OK, many thanks for all of your suggestions while I was on the road. I did figure this out. The glue has come partially loose on the left side of the window from its horizontal frame. That will be addressed soon. The regulator arm was somehow separated from the window frame bar(horizontal). The arm has a large washer, small washer, and spring, all kept together by a locking clip. This mechanism seems too close to the door and doesn't seem to stay well in the window frame rail. It is the tightness of the spring, or is this arm supposed to be bent slightly backward toward the outside so it can stay holding the frame? Sorry, I hope you all can follow this description.

best,
jeff
Blue Shadow
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Re: Raising window manually (cross posted)

Post by Blue Shadow »

What?

Does that answer your questions about whether we understand the way you explained the workings?

Use the diagrams and post some numbers. I've corrected the second diagram to be the rear door.

I'm guessing in the first diagram above you have one unglued tab on the bar across the bottom of the glass (the part number 5 is right there where the tabs are)
milarsky
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Re: Raising window manually (cross posted)

Post by milarsky »

Blue Shadow wrote: Sep 04, 2022 10:47 PM What?

Does that answer your questions about whether we understand the way you explained the workings?

Use the diagrams and post some numbers. I've corrected the second diagram to be the rear door.

I'm guessing in the first diagram above you have one unglued tab on the bar across the bottom of the glass (the part number 5 is right there where the tabs are)
Hello Blue Shadow. My "description" was merely my understanding. I am still confused as to exactly why the arm is not lining up with the window frame bar. I still need help.
milarsky
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Re: Raising window manually (cross posted)

Post by milarsky »

The end of part #13 in the 2nd diagram does not seem to line up with the window frame bar. In addition, they do not give any parts or diagrams for the spring/2 washer/locking clip attachment point for the arm. Hence my confusion. Another crappy BMW diagram in my opinion.
Blue Shadow
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Re: Raising window manually (cross posted)

Post by Blue Shadow »

This is for an E23 front door. Different from the rear door but close.

http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/15049

It shows the general alignment of the roller ends of the motor arms, the glued-on bar on the window that receives the rollers and other parts and pieces.

came from this list of projects and resources: http://www.e38.org/e28/ has a few dead links but lots of good info on working on these cars.

Hope this helps. Let us know if you get stuck on getting things right.
milarsky
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Re: Raising window manually (cross posted)

Post by milarsky »

Blue Shadow wrote: Sep 05, 2022 12:51 PM This is for an E23 front door. Different from the rear door but close.

http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/15049

It shows the general alignment of the roller ends of the motor arms, the glued-on bar on the window that receives the rollers and other parts and pieces.

came from this list of projects and resources: http://www.e38.org/e28/ has a few dead links but lots of good info on working on these cars.

Hope this helps. Let us know if you get stuck on getting things right.
Thanks SO much B Shadow
milarsky
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Re: Raising window manually (cross posted)

Post by milarsky »

OK. Blue Shadow posted a link that might be exactly what I need, thanks so much. It looks like the spring/two washer/locking clip bundle (on the rising arm) slides INTO the window frame bar, NOT under it, which seems to be my confusion. Is this correct?

best,
jeff
Blue Shadow
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Re: Raising window manually (cross posted)

Post by Blue Shadow »

The round end of the lift motor arm goes into the track glued to the glass

There is an opening in the track (semicircles carved outta the track edges) that allow the lets call it the button to go into the track. IIRC. It has been decades.

The track and button should be lubed for ease of movement. Clean the track then lube, wheel bearing grease works fine. Do all four Windows, your car is old, the grease has worn off or turned to more of a glue and your motors will work less hard.

We'll get to cleaning switches soon enough.
Last edited by Blue Shadow on Sep 06, 2022 1:00 PM, edited 1 time in total.
jayjaya29
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Re: Raising window manually (cross posted)

Post by jayjaya29 »

milarsky wrote: Sep 05, 2022 2:31 PM OK. Blue Shadow posted a link that might be exactly what I need, thanks so much. It looks like the spring/two washer/locking clip bundle (on the rising arm) slides INTO the window frame bar, NOT under it, which seems to be my confusion. Is this correct?

best,
jeff
Yes it goes into the window frame bar.
milarsky
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Re: Raising window manually (cross posted)

Post by milarsky »

Thanks all! Finally a success! It turns out the smaller fiber washer that goes through to the other side of the track had somehow been knocked out and kind of knackered a bit. Found two new dense fiber washers, one big and one small at a local hardware store, and voila! Regreased the track, re-glued the window (which has separated due to drying out, and the motor bound up from all of this), and it will dry in the tight upright position.

Thanks to all who helped me through this project.

I do agree that at this point, all our door mechanisms need to be accessed and re-lubed after 35 years from the factory.

best,
jeff
RetiredDoc
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Re: Raising window manually (cross posted)

Post by RetiredDoc »

I am a day late and a dollar short, but the motors on the rear windows are sealed, unlike the front window motors. Front and rear on the same side are identical except for this and can be swapped. The original front motors have a rubber plug which is pried out to allow access for that white plastic emergency manual window crank in the trunk’s original tool kit. The rear motors lack this access plug.
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