What are new Euro headlight options?

E28 technical advice asked and given! Troubleshooting, modifications and more.
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gwb72tii
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What are new Euro headlight options?

Post by gwb72tii »

Howdy

When I bought Maeve, the car had been converted over to Euro bumpers and grills/headlights. I’m starting to reassemble the car and wonder if there are H4 headlight options other than Hella?

TIA
Justin_FL
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Re: What are new Euro headlight options?

Post by Justin_FL »

Unfortunately, there is nothing besides Hella OE glass that I'm aware of due to the proprietary Euro E23/E28 lamp retention design. The common aftermarket 7" round lamps have no way to be attached.

Misc Ramblings:
If you are OK with using 5.75" lights (US equal size high/low), then you probably are aware that several optically decent aftermarket options exist such as (a dwindling) choice of Hella drop ins, and maybe another brand or two like Koito, then NOS before you get into the really questionable Chinese stuff. So not many practical options today either... :rofl:

I did purchase two sets (5.75" and 7") of the Holley RetroBright LED light assemblies in 3000K last year when they were on sale (25% off). These are the only LED setups that looks like a traditional headlight that I've seen in the market (https://www.holley.com/products/electri ... trobright/).

The 7" ones will not be a direct fit in an E28, but my hope was to come up with a way to mount them in the Euro frames or fab a new frame. It's a rainy day project for down the road. Hopefully it is indeed possible to adapt the Holley 7" LEDs and get some good lighting, but if not I know a Porsche or two the lights can be put to use so it wasn't a waste of money.

On the other hand, the 5.75" set will mount directly in a US-spec car and I bought them to use as lows on my 528e (the car is a bit of a beater so didn't want to put a less easily replaceable Euro setup on it). Haven't installed them yet on that car, but the light output and beam spread looks pretty good to me from just temporarily hooking them up and shining across my backyard. Obviously not an on-road test but seems better than any factory E28 lighting option.
Shawn D.
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Re: What are new Euro headlight options?

Post by Shawn D. »

Justin_FL wrote: Jun 26, 2022 4:54 PM ... Holley 7" LEDs...
All of Holleys lights look great, especially given the color temperature options. Sucks that they're so expensive, though!
Justin_FL
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Re: What are new Euro headlight options?

Post by Justin_FL »

The 25% Black Friday sale last year at The Retrofit Source helped save $100 on the pair of 7", so if you are in the market for one of the Holley fitments they carry it might be worth the wait!
Mike W.
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Re: What are new Euro headlight options?

Post by Mike W. »

Is that the same Holley as the funky carburetors? Whatever, wow, talk about expensive, $180 each, not pair? In this era of flamethrower headlights, often mounted and aimed at roof level, the definition of bright has changed dramatically, although light on the road a bit less. Still, the old school H4/H1 weren't too bad. I've been very happy with several purchases from https://classicgarage.com/534rounhealb.html over the years, though nothing in the past decade or so, so it's possible I'm out of date. IMO the Neolites have been in Hella territory, illumination wise, though not up to the Cibie of old which were NLA the last I knew. But they were cheap. And higher wattage bulbs are always an option and as long as not deliberately misaimed, will likely be far less irritating to other drivers than nearly all General Motors pickups built in the past 15 years or more.

Both on and off topic, I bought some euro headlights for an E23 forever ago. Unfortunately they were early, I had late and they were not interchangeable so they're still sitting in my pile of parts. However, this is the interesting part, the buckets had been retrofitted, by a lousy welder, to accept standard sealed beam headlights, both 7 and 5.75. So with some creativity and euro grills, something like that is an option, albeit hopefully with better welding skills.

And or talk to Daniel Stern, to whom automotive lighting is not a passion, but a way of life.
db9
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Re: What are new Euro headlight options?

Post by db9 »

Hello Mike..

If time permits, could you post some pictures of the modified "bucket" assemblies?

Thank you,
Shawn D.
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Re: What are new Euro headlight options?

Post by Shawn D. »

Mike W. wrote: Jun 27, 2022 12:24 AM Is that the same Holley as the funky carburetors?
Holley owns a multitude of well-known brands now, with products across the spectrum of automotive aftermarket. They own Hooker, Earl's, Scott Drake, Flowmaster, NOS, MSD, and more.
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Re: What are new Euro headlight options?

Post by gwb72tii »

Daniel Sterns reply:

Hi, George. Thanks for writing.

First: I hope you and yours are safe and well

From the front, the Euro setup looks like it uses standard-fit 7" and 5-3/4" lamp units—it does not; the lamp units are unique to the Bimmers that used them, and they were made only by Hella. This is an inefficient system on low beam; it gives very short seeing distance. This is a function of its optics; it cannot be brute-force overcome with a brighter bulb. Be careful not to bite on the common myth that European headlamps (or H4 headlamps, or Hella headlamps…) are necessarily good or superior. American sealed beams are godawful, that is true, but taking the sealed beam as emblematic of all US-spec headlamps is just as much of an error as assuming any European or H4 headlamp is a good one. There is ample room in both standards for good, effective headlamps…and excessive room in both standards for lousy ones. The nature of the lousiness (the particulars of the deficiency) varies, that's all.

Also, these headlamps and their repair parts are obsolete/no longer manufactured. You can occasionally chase down new old stock parts here and there, but it's a hunting expedition; they're usually costly when they pop up, and every one found and bought is one less available the next time you need one (road rock, fender bender…).

Used ones are around, but the "good used" headlamp is more or less a mythical creature—they are always used, but seldom good. Cracks and holes are obvious enough, but the pitting/sandblasting that accumulates over the years worsens headlight performance much more than might seem obvious.

And lenses aren't the only part of the headlamp that degrades with age. The reflectors are shiny by dint of a very thin layer of vapor-deposited aluminum with a very thin protective clear topcoat. The topcoat eventually breaks down and allows the aluminum to begin oxidizing. Optical degradation of the reflector is severely advanced well before you could possibly see it with the naked eye; by the time the reflector has visibly degraded enough to be described as just a little imperfect, the lamp is past dead. To calibrate your mind on this point: even the most costly, beautiful chrome plating that makes bumpers look 10 feet deep on a show car, is only about 67% reflective. That's not nearly good enough for optical purposes; an as-new headlamp reflector is over 96% reflective, and there is no bulb that can compensate.

So you've got some choices to make here. If you put back the grille and bracket setup that has all four headlamps the same (smaller) size, there are some very good options in lamp units to drop right in—notably some highly legitimate LED units. (emphasis here on legitimate; there is a _mountain_ of garbage on the lighting market, all promoted and hyped as an upgrade).

Or you can keep the grille setup with bigger outboard lamps and smaller inboard lamps, but unhandcuff yourself from the obsolete/low-performance factory lighting hardware. In that case you will have to exert some cleverness to put together mount-aim hardware to accept 7" round standard-fit lamp units outboard and 5-3/4" round lamps inboard. The hardware to do this exists, just not as a direct drop-in. You'd have to fiddle with it a bit: drill some new holes in the radiator support panel to hold the new fixtures, possibly add spacers or washers to put the new fixtures the correct distance forward of the rad support panel to position the lamps correctly within the grille nacelles, that kind of thing. The individual-lamp mount/aim brackets are off-the-shelf items; I don't supply them, but I can point you at them if you'd like the info.

Steering clear of the model-specific lamp hardware will "future proof" your headlamps, because standard-fit lamps in these sizes will be available for the foreseeable future due to enormous installed base around the world. Specific brand-and-model lamps have come and gone over the years, and that's still happening, but there is always _something_ worthy that will fit and work. And there are presently numerous worthy options in both sizes (more choices in the 7" round than in the 5-3/4"). Whatever level of performance, whatever appearance, and whatever price level you consider appropriate, you can have standard-fit lamps that will suit.

Next round of questions is yours!

Cheers DS
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Re: What are new Euro headlight options?

Post by garageboy »

gwb72tii wrote: Jun 28, 2022 12:01 AM Daniel Sterns reply:
Nice to see Daniel still at it. I probably asked him the same question 10 years ago, and got precisely the same answer.

I took his advice. I am very happy with the quality of the light of the Hella H4s. Hope this helps.

p.s. I'm OK with not being the coolest kid on the block with Euro bumpers, headlights, and headlight wipers. In fact, I'm downright uncool. :rofl:
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