Motul Classic 2100 15W-50, semi-synth., API SH

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RobertRO
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Motul Classic 2100 15W-50, semi-synth., API SH

Post by RobertRO »

Considering that the oil technology is constantly moving away from classic engines, I thought that it may be useful to mention here an oil that has the potential to be a good option for the BMW M30.

It's the Motul Classic 2100 15W-50.
It is a semi-synthetic, API SH oil. As per the datasheet, it is formulated "with a combination of high-Zinc level (ZDDP content above 1800 ppm) and Molybdenum additives" and "an oxidation stable synthetic base that allows stay-in-grade viscosity, and consistent engine oil pressure
and extra high-temperature oil film strength".

Here's a link to Motul US product page:
https://www.motul.com/us/en-US/products/2100-15w50

No affiliation.
tn535i
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Re: Motul Classic 2100 15W-50, semi-synth., API SH

Post by tn535i »

Good to know. It sounds like Motul realizes there is a European market for an oil specifically formulated for older engines and has caught on. I think it was initially the air cooled Porsche crowd who discovered modern oils wrecked engines due to lack of ZDDP and other ash related additives. So it makes sense there should be a European brand with the right 'OLD' formulation for older engines. As I understand oils were backward compatible and improved up until about the 80's or early 90's, then technology moved in a different direction altogether and is no longer suitable for many older engines.
Chimi-Changa
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Re: Motul Classic 2100 15W-50, semi-synth., API SH

Post by Chimi-Changa »

Great to hear, and interested to learnanyone's feedback that tries it out. I have a lot of respect for Motul products from Motorcycles.
cyclist
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Re: Motul Classic 2100 15W-50, semi-synth., API SH

Post by cyclist »

I use motul in my volvo and newer bmw. I just purchased the motul classic 20w50 for my e28. I tried liqui molly and am not super happy with it. Engine seems to be louder with the lm than the castrol I was using. I will post a update when I change to the motul. Have been happy with motul in my t5 and n52 engines
vinceg101
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Re: Motul Classic 2100 15W-50, semi-synth., API SH

Post by vinceg101 »

I wonder how it compares to Valvoline's full synthetic VR-1 20W-50? https://www.valvoline.com/our-products/ ... -motor-oil

I just saw that Castrol released an equivalent conventional high zinc 20W-50 (GTX Classic): https://www.castrol.com/en_us/united-st ... assic.html
Blue Shadow
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Re: Motul Classic 2100 15W-50, semi-synth., API SH

Post by Blue Shadow »

ZDDP used to be 1200-1400 ppm now less than half that due to cleaning up the oil per govt regs.

Motul specs 1800 ppm
It is formulated with a unique combination of High Zinc, Phosphorus (ZDDP content >1800 ppm) and Molybdenum additives to provide the best protection. CAS: 28629-66-5 Zinc Alkyl Dithiophosphate 1 <= X % < 2.5


Valvoline specs 1-1.5% (10000-15000 ppm)
Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphate 68649-42-3 >=1-<1.5%

Castrol specs less than 3% of a phosphoric acid zinc compound.
Phosphorodithioic acid, mixed O,O-bis(2-ethylhexyl and iso-Bu and iso-Pr) esters, zinc salts

Looks like they will all protect out motors better than the new stuff.

Italics taken from the MSDS. Quantities not in italics taken from the sales sheets.
vinceg101
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Re: Motul Classic 2100 15W-50, semi-synth., API SH

Post by vinceg101 »

Blue Shadow wrote: Nov 22, 2021 5:24 PM Valvoline specs 1-1.5% (10000-15000 ppm)
Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphate 68649-42-3 >=1-<1.5%
Did you get that correct? According to the spec sheets they list the zinc at 1400 ppm (that is the same for both conventional and synthetic versions)
Blue Shadow wrote: Nov 22, 2021 5:24 PM Castrol specs less than 3% of a phosphoric acid zinc compound.
Phosphorodithioic acid, mixed O,O-bis(2-ethylhexyl and iso-Bu and iso-Pr) esters, zinc salts
Unfortunately Castrol only lists zinc as a percentage but does list 1400 ppm maximum.
tn535i
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Re: Motul Classic 2100 15W-50, semi-synth., API SH

Post by tn535i »

I've been using Brad Penn Penn Grade 1 in my BMW's and my boat motor which is similar in ZDDP and other additives as all these mentioned. It's another semi-synthetic option if you have not heard of it but a little more difficult to find. Some of the oils designed for inboard boat motors I think have the higher Z and Ca. No converter yet and many still old school in design.

Many reasons or talking points for the big shift in oil formulations but I believe the biggest is reducing inorganic in the burned exhaust that can potentially foul catalytic converters which means... they can build much cheaper catalytic converters with less precious metal and perhaps even lower cost metals like Cerium versus Platinum. Engine improvements allowed them to get away with lower ash content but the better mileage with lower weight oils and fewer emissions is just noise in the data IMO. I bet many newer engines would last longer and work better on higher vis oils with some of the old additives as long as they were not burning too much oil it might foul the converter.
Blue Shadow
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Re: Motul Classic 2100 15W-50, semi-synth., API SH

Post by Blue Shadow »

vinceg101 wrote: Nov 22, 2021 5:46 PM
Did you get that correct?
I didn't want to do the math, just relaying info in the MSDS and sales flyers. bottom line we have some oils to use, including the Brad Penn, mentioned before and just above.
vinceg101
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Re: Motul Classic 2100 15W-50, semi-synth., API SH

Post by vinceg101 »

Blue Shadow wrote: Nov 22, 2021 6:17 PM
vinceg101 wrote: Nov 22, 2021 5:46 PM
Did you get that correct?
I didn't want to do the math, just relaying info in the MSDS and sales flyers. bottom line we have some oils to use, including the Brad Penn, mentioned before and just above.
Correct, it is nice to see we now have more options for high zinc oils across conventional and synthetic.
I think the best value is the gallon containers of conventional Valvoline VR-1 20W-50 which have consistently been selling at around $32 to $35 in the big box auto parts stores (well, specifically only O'Reilly's here in the west). It's way cheaper than buying individual quarts.
Mike W.
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Re: Motul Classic 2100 15W-50, semi-synth., API SH

Post by Mike W. »

tn535i wrote: Nov 22, 2021 6:12 PM
Many reasons or talking points for the big shift in oil formulations but I believe the biggest is reducing inorganic in the burned exhaust that can potentially foul catalytic converters which means... they can build much cheaper catalytic converters with less precious metal and perhaps even lower cost metals like Cerium versus Platinum. Engine improvements allowed them to get away with lower ash content but the better mileage with lower weight oils and fewer emissions is just noise in the data IMO. I bet many newer engines would last longer and work better on higher vis oils with some of the old additives as long as they were not burning too much oil it might foul the converter.
I've heard, and I don't claim to be an authority, that part of the problem is the manufacturers are pushing so hard for MPG they're using low tension piston rings, which in the BMW world first became an issue with M54 engines in 2001, and because of that oil consumption is up. I've also heard cold starts are a big part of MPG calcs and a reason the super thin oil is being spec'd here, but not worldwide in the same engines, and of course thin oil is more likely to get past rings.

Has anyone here had engine damage, cam, rockers, from the lower zinc oil?
vinceg101
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Re: Motul Classic 2100 15W-50, semi-synth., API SH

Post by vinceg101 »

I don't mean to derail this into yet another mind-numbing "What is the best oil" discussion, but on your note about the M54 motor ring issues, I've been using Castrol Edge 5W-40 (US) in the E39 with pretty good results for some years now and especially since I addressed all the leaks oil separator issues. I noticed that Castrol has an Euro Edge variant which actually carries the BMW Longlife-01 spec; should I actually be using this instead? Or at over 212K miles does it matter anymore?
(Of course it's more expensive and harder to find...)
Mike W.
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Re: Motul Classic 2100 15W-50, semi-synth., API SH

Post by Mike W. »

vinceg101 wrote: Nov 22, 2021 8:29 PM I don't mean to derail this into yet another mind-numbing "What is the best oil" discussion, but on your note about the M54 motor ring issues, I've been using Castrol Edge 5W-40 (US) in the E39 with pretty good results for some years now and especially since I addressed all the leaks oil separator issues. I noticed that Castrol has an Euro Edge variant which actually carries the BMW Longlife-01 spec; should I actually be using this instead? Or at over 212K miles does it matter anymore?
(Of course it's more expensive and harder to find...)
From what I can tell on M54s, a few are just oil pigs, many or most are well into the moderate range, and a few use little to nothing, like it's predecessor, the M52. Liqui Moly 5-40 BMW LL01 (and not LL 98) made a pretty significant difference in mine. From 3 or 4 quarts a change to maybe 1. I don't know what's magic about the LL 01, but this specific one made a big difference in my 525it. My guess is it won't be a wear issue with your car unless maybe you're running the factory 15K or whatever change interval. (yes I know, SI lights, but about) If oil consumption is not a problem, I'd keep doing what you're doing. If it is a problem I'd try either the Castrol or Liqui Moly LL 01. Less definitive, but it seemed to make a more modest reduction on my 03 Infiniti QX4.
vinceg101
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Re: Motul Classic 2100 15W-50, semi-synth., API SH

Post by vinceg101 »

Mike W. wrote: Nov 23, 2021 1:59 AM From what I can tell on M54s, a few are just oil pigs, many or most are well into the moderate range, and a few use little to nothing, like it's predecessor, the M52. Liqui Moly 5-40 BMW LL01 (and not LL 98) made a pretty significant difference in mine. From 3 or 4 quarts a change to maybe 1. I don't know what's magic about the LL 01, but this specific one made a big difference in my 525it. My guess is it won't be a wear issue with your car unless maybe you're running the factory 15K or whatever change interval. (yes I know, SI lights, but about) If oil consumption is not a problem, I'd keep doing what you're doing. If it is a problem I'd try either the Castrol or Liqui Moly LL 01. Less definitive, but it seemed to make a more modest reduction on my 03 Infiniti QX4.
I think mine is definitely on the piggish side, currently I find I have to add 1/2 qt every 3-4 tanks of gas (+/-1,000 to 1,500 miles). I try to keep my oil services if not around 7,500 at least under 10K miles. I don't drive terribly much so it's more like a yearly thing at this stage. I found the gallons of the EU LL01 Edge at NAPA for $30 which is pretty decent, otherwise the cheapest I found the US 5W-40 Edge was at Walmart for $21/ga. which is the best price around. Maybe I'll try the EU version and see how it affects consumption.
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