Opening the 265

E28 technical advice asked and given! Troubleshooting, modifications and more.
Rust Bucket
Posts: 109
Joined: Dec 27, 2020 1:06 PM
Location: Montreal

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Rust Bucket »

Reading Vince thread on input shaft bearing helped me understand relation between shaft,bearing and case.It also is a very interesting topic.
I shall add my 0.02$ in that thread.The input shaft bearing replacement alternative seem to be well taken care of.I will concentrate on other
area of the tranny.

I feel confident pulling case with bearings in place.All info I got point in that direction.I might put the heat gun on inner race just because I
have it and it'll make me feel better.
Rust Bucket
Posts: 109
Joined: Dec 27, 2020 1:06 PM
Location: Montreal

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Rust Bucket »

I'll leave these here for now
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test5
Posts: 93
Joined: May 05, 2011 9:38 AM

Re: Opening the 265

Post by test5 »

Sweet! More pics of the puller, especially the underside.

How much would you charge to make another puller like that? :D
Mike W.
Posts: 26872
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: California Whine Country

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Mike W. »

Rust Bucket wrote: Aug 18, 2021 8:24 PM I'll leave these here for now
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Cool! So simplistically speaking after the front bearing cover and snap ring you just pulled it off by the bellhousing mounts? How hard was it coming off? And the bearings stayed in the front part of the case?
Rust Bucket
Posts: 109
Joined: Dec 27, 2020 1:06 PM
Location: Montreal

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Rust Bucket »

Admitely I might have overkilled that one.But 10 years of reading on how hard the 265 is to open led me to build that puller...sturdy.
Thing is,since it dose not flex and pull straight,it might have made the operation that easy.I was concerned about pulling only by the bellhousing
bolts ears,fearing they might break off.I was about to drill holes for the smaller bolts around bearings but a friend convinced me to try it,which I
did.The 265 offered little resistance.

I think one could build himself a puller fairly easily.My puller can serve as inspiration but I dont think it needs to be that strong.Now,I only opened
one transmission with it and I suspect it been opened in the past.Maybe it was easier than it usually is.But based on that single experience,we are
nowhere near the 10 TON internet folklore.Find a big bolt and build something that pull straight.

Remember it must be in third gear per Getrag instructions.

The bearing indeed stayed with the front cover.I have'nt heated anything,I pulled cold.The inner race inside half stayed on the shaft while the
outside half felled off.

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More pics of the mulla pulla
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Now I need to find some more 265 to open
test5
Posts: 93
Joined: May 05, 2011 9:38 AM

Re: Opening the 265

Post by test5 »

Thanks for the pictures!
Rust Bucket wrote: Aug 19, 2021 5:35 PM I was concerned about pulling only by the bellhousing bolts ears,fearing they might break off.
I did notice that. I’m glad it worked alright. And you do need to try it again with another 265.
Rust Bucket wrote: Aug 19, 2021 5:35 PM Remember it must be in third gear per Getrag instructions.
I didn’t catch that part. Where did you see that? Good info.
Mike W.
Posts: 26872
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: California Whine Country

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Mike W. »

Rust Bucket wrote: Aug 19, 2021 5:35 PM But 10 years of reading on how hard the 265 is to open led me to build that puller...sturdy.

We are nowhere near the 10 TON internet folklore.Find a big bolt and build something that pull straight.
I've been looking at those rumors longer than 10 years, but only briefly. But I think, repeat think, the 10 ton press is to press a gear or gear cluster off a shaft. Or something like that, but not just opening it.
Rust Bucket
Posts: 109
Joined: Dec 27, 2020 1:06 PM
Location: Montreal

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Rust Bucket »

Yeah there's a gear in there needing up to 30TON to press off the shaft,apparently.I'd find a shop with such a press and work with them.Or I might
build a second mulla pulla.The strength of the 1.25" ACME thread have not been tested so far.

Next step is removing tail housing.
Rust Bucket
Posts: 109
Joined: Dec 27, 2020 1:06 PM
Location: Montreal

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Rust Bucket »

On a second note,would you guys be interested in having your tool to open a 265.

What I have in mind is milling a mild steel plate that clear the bearings and have all bolts holes in the right spots so u can use puller aformentionned
in the thread,using plumbing stuff readily availible at hardware stores.

All I'd do is mill the plate and ship it,plumbing stuff is on you.And I need to know bolt pattern of said plumbing stuff
Sagi
Posts: 126
Joined: Oct 14, 2016 7:54 PM

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Sagi »

Can you pull the inner main bearing race so we can finally see if there is a notch for the locating ball.

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Thanks.
Mike W.
Posts: 26872
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: California Whine Country

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Mike W. »

A bit of an aside, does anyone know if the 265, and 260/5 and 260/6 for that matter, were designed by BMW and built by Getrag, or a Getrag design deemed acceptable by BMW or what? Doesn't matter, I'm just curious.
Sagi
Posts: 126
Joined: Oct 14, 2016 7:54 PM

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Sagi »

Opel was using the dogleg (265/5) with the Manta ,senator and Monza equipped with integrated shifting case(not all models)



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The Jaguar XJ (XJ40) early models used the 265/6.

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Last edited by Sagi on Aug 22, 2021 12:15 PM, edited 3 times in total.
Rust Bucket
Posts: 109
Joined: Dec 27, 2020 1:06 PM
Location: Montreal

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Rust Bucket »

Gonna be interesting to pull the inner race out :? Let's see what I can accomplish this week.

Mike I'm pretty sure Getrag designed these transmissions.

I can imagine some european chief engineers sitting at a table in a Getrag conference room.Discussing specific car manufacturer needs,gear ratios
for example.Each choice having an impact on per/unit cost.As long Getrag does'nt need to re-tool to meet car manufacturer needs,price should not raise too much.Then a multi-millions dollars contract is signed, they all shake hands,some germans laugh out super loud and everybody climb in their Benz,BMW or Maserati and blast down the autobahn to enjoy their bonus with their families.

Then they start pouring aluminium castings for specific car/model.These casting gets filled with Getrag stuff and sent to car manufacturer.I guess
the 280 in M5 / M6 must have cost significantly more if only for the fact it's a small batch and they have their own specific aluminium cases.

That's the way I see it anyway
Last edited by Rust Bucket on Aug 22, 2021 10:25 PM, edited 2 times in total.
test5
Posts: 93
Joined: May 05, 2011 9:38 AM

Re: Opening the 265

Post by test5 »

Sagi wrote: Jul 30, 2021 12:51 AM If you want to wait with that, I'm arranging a video of rebuilding a 265/6 by Paul cangialosi. I have all the bearing and an ebay box that is heading his way.

https://youtube.com/c/GearBoxVideo

Cheers
Any updates on this?
Sagi
Posts: 126
Joined: Oct 14, 2016 7:54 PM

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Sagi »

He said that he doesn't take rebuilds now.i will try again in 2 weeks.if he will refuse again ill make the video myself.
The picture with the inner race, it's the output main bearing,I have the FAG one for it.
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This is the main input shaft inner race picture

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Rust Bucket
Posts: 109
Joined: Dec 27, 2020 1:06 PM
Location: Montreal

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Rust Bucket »

Keep up the good work guys,I have 20 students on lathes and milling machines for the next two weeks,none of which know nothing about those
dangerous machines.Kinda busy.Still I will mess with the tranny and report.Next step is inner race stuck on shaft and tail housing removal.

My offer stand for a limited production of a mild steel plates which would allow you to easily use threaded pipe and regular puller to open your
265.

test5 would be the guinea pig and report

Gimme a couple days Sagi I'll check that inner race thing
maybeillbuyit
Posts: 534
Joined: Feb 01, 2014 12:00 PM
Location: Vancouver BC

Re: Opening the 265

Post by maybeillbuyit »

Subscribed!! Glad to see this post. I have just had a problem with the freshly installed 265/6 I put into my e12. The trans worked great for 600KMs then started rattling. ( I think it was the transmission, hard to tell). I pulled it and it seemed to me the input shaft was very loose. Maybe 1mm or more sideways play and 1/2 mm in and out. I notice in the Bentley BMW make 4 diff thicknesses of snap rings so I ordered all 4 sizes and replaced the original which was the thinnest with the second thickest available.
ImageScreen Shot 2021-08-24 at 10.05.19 AM by
That has definitely taken a lot of the slop out of the input shaft. It still moves a little but much less. The transmission is back in and so far no rattle. Not sure if this has fixed the rattle /looseness permanently or what. I'll be driving the car more to find out.
I know the bearings go on these but on my trans the bearing appeared to be ok. As you know you can seen the ball bearings in the front of the bearing and mine look perfect so I'm assuming ( and hoping) they are good.

I bought a replacement bearing from a bearing supply place in Germany years ago in case I ever needed it and I was looking at pulling the cases apart and trying to figure out how to put the new one in. So this post is good timing . I was surprised to see in the Bentley the other day there is instructions on how to make a puller to pull the front of the case off the input shaft. I've been reading the Bentley for years and never noticed this Pic:
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2mj6Bfg]Image
1EFD6808-B417-45AC-9C63-03C58546C954_1_105_c by

The bearing I have has no notch that slots into a ball bearing or pin. I also see no mention of this in the Bentley, weird.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2mj6BeV]Image
E913004C-1281-437E-A831-A48E20BD90D2_1_105_c by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/151834021@N05/]
I have another 265 I'm going to attempt to pull apart and install my bearing in. It has a lot of looseness in the input shaft.

Rustbucket, I got say, amazing work on the puller build. Thats a work of art. I don't think what ever POS I come up with will be nearly as impressive. :laugh:
Again ,great to see this post
Sagi
Posts: 126
Joined: Oct 14, 2016 7:54 PM

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Sagi »

The bearing you have is exactly like the one I bought. It's a reproduction,this is way I want to know about the pin.
Just arrived few days ago.

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maybeillbuyit
Posts: 534
Joined: Feb 01, 2014 12:00 PM
Location: Vancouver BC

Re: Opening the 265

Post by maybeillbuyit »

Sagi, Right OK. I realized after I posted my the pics of my bearing it had the same markings as yours. Like I said I bought this bearing many years ago from the same place as you. At that time I received one bearing and it looked correct although I didn't install it as I had no idea how to do that :laugh: Then I inquired about buying more bearings assuming lots of people on this forum would be interested in buying one. They said they only were manufacturing the bearing for one BMW shop in Deutschland and selling me one was actually a mistake, and wouldn't sell anymore. Looks like they've changed their mind. This is the first time I've ever seen the detail of the pin.
Sagi
Posts: 126
Joined: Oct 14, 2016 7:54 PM

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Sagi »

The original FAG with the locating pin notch.
Anyway, it will be easy to modify the aftermarket bearing.


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Rust Bucket
Posts: 109
Joined: Dec 27, 2020 1:06 PM
Location: Montreal

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Rust Bucket »

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Started to work on next steps
Rust Bucket
Posts: 109
Joined: Dec 27, 2020 1:06 PM
Location: Montreal

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Rust Bucket »

maybeillbuyit wrote: Aug 24, 2021 1:09 PM Rustbucket, I got say, amazing work on the puller build.
Thanks ! Had much fun building it. Way overbuilt tho :nuts:
Sagi
Posts: 126
Joined: Oct 14, 2016 7:54 PM

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Sagi »

Super.
LeiseyJr
Posts: 1525
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Location: Houston,Tx

Re: Opening the 265

Post by LeiseyJr »

When I rebuilt my G265 dogleg, I used a tool that pulled the bearings out of the case. Had tongs that grabbed the inner race. Pull the layshaft and input shaft bearing out, and than front case comes right off. I like your tool better. Good thread.
Rust Bucket
Posts: 109
Joined: Dec 27, 2020 1:06 PM
Location: Montreal

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Rust Bucket »

So I had a few moments to play with the 265

Bought that puller a couple months ago to remove M30 crank hub
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Obviously does'nt fit
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I think I have an idea
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Taking measurements
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Gotta be equal lenght
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Looking good
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!&*%#$ stupid Play-Doh steel :x
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eh cant win em all,have a nice week-end guys
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