Opening the 265

E28 technical advice asked and given! Troubleshooting, modifications and more.
Rust Bucket
Posts: 109
Joined: Dec 27, 2020 1:06 PM
Location: Montreal

Opening the 265

Post by Rust Bucket »

Letting all of you know I decided to crack open that 265/6 I got in my shed.

I dont have a 300 Ton press,or the 93 special tools required to play in this transmission.But I have nothing to lose and am ready to **** things up.

Found this PDF: http://home.pilsfree.net/aula/BMW%20-%2 ... ission.pdf

Maybe some of you have some more literature to share.This is all I could find.I plan on borrowing my friend Bentley E28 repair manual too.

Inputs and suggestions more than welcome.

Stay tuned
dsw99a
Posts: 405
Joined: Jan 07, 2012 5:22 AM
Location: Hawaii

Re: Opening the 265

Post by dsw99a »

God Bless You and Good Luck.

I dont have balls big enough to even consider this undertaking :laugh:
Sagi
Posts: 126
Joined: Oct 14, 2016 7:54 PM

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Sagi »

If you want to wait with that, I'm arranging a video of rebuilding a 265/6 by Paul cangialosi. I have all the bearing and an ebay box that is heading his way.

https://youtube.com/c/GearBoxVideo

Cheers
Mike W.
Posts: 26872
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: California Whine Country

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Mike W. »

Good and tip of the hat to you! I tried briefly one time to get into one, just to see, but in the 15-20 minutes I spent on it I had zero luck. Now I posted it here as a core for anything more than the $15 it was worth to me at the time as a core, but no interest, so it went to Pick and Pull as a core for one I bought. :roll: Yeah, I know... But kudos to you for tearing into it! And keep us posted, I still have one or more, just no place to put it. :(
test5
Posts: 93
Joined: May 05, 2011 9:38 AM

Re: Opening the 265

Post by test5 »

Sagi wrote: Jul 30, 2021 12:51 AM If you want to wait with that, I'm arranging a video of rebuilding a 265/6 by Paul cangialosi. I have all the bearing and an ebay box that is heading his way.

https://youtube.com/c/GearBoxVideo

Cheers
Subscribed
Rust Bucket
Posts: 109
Joined: Dec 27, 2020 1:06 PM
Location: Montreal

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Rust Bucket »

Making tremendous progress here guys

ImageImage

First thing I noticed,removing the bellhousing makes handling the transmission a breeze.You can also make some curls with
it if you wish so.

Awesome that you arranged a video with Paul Cangialosi.Already listen to a couple of his videos,seems like a cool guy.

Learned a thing here and there from your posts Mike,glad your onboard.
Tiit
Posts: 290
Joined: Oct 06, 2017 6:27 AM
Location: Canberra

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Tiit »

Following. Good luck.
Click
Posts: 63
Joined: Jul 08, 2014 12:48 PM
Location: Reading, PA

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Click »

This is something I've been needing to do also. I'm pretty sure my output bearing is on its way out, trans sounds fine idling in neutral but as you let the clutch out in gear and get the car rolling the trans starts to whine. It'll be great to see a pro make a video, whenever I get around to doing it I'll make a video as well.

I've accumulated a few references.

The factory repair manual like you linked.

This thread. Some of the pics have since died but I have a saved copy of pages 1+2 when the pics were still available.
https://s14net.vbulletin.net/forum/s14/ ... 265-5-o-h

This PDF, not super detailed but a reference none the less.
http://www.bmw8.us/english%20gearbox.pdf

This post of an epic E30 M3 Resto. Unfortunately the photos have since vanished but again I have a copy saved when the pictures were still available. If anyone can host htmls I can forward on the files
https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/forum/ ... ost2747503
Rust Bucket
Posts: 109
Joined: Dec 27, 2020 1:06 PM
Location: Montreal

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Rust Bucket »

Thats is really good Click,helps a lot.

Been very busy lately but I'm getting back to it this week-end guys
Sagi
Posts: 126
Joined: Oct 14, 2016 7:54 PM

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Sagi »

test5
Posts: 93
Joined: May 05, 2011 9:38 AM

Re: Opening the 265

Post by test5 »

Rust Bucket
Posts: 109
Joined: Dec 27, 2020 1:06 PM
Location: Montreal

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Rust Bucket »

Sagi you got us a gem!

Great to have all these links together.
Rust Bucket
Posts: 109
Joined: Dec 27, 2020 1:06 PM
Location: Montreal

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Rust Bucket »

So I had time to mess with the 265 today

First a little clean up
Image
Image

The workbench
Image

Put in 3rd gear,dont forget it's the opposite of the shift lever!
Image

Push back spring sleeve,than little pin easy to remove
Image
Done!
Image

Now back to the front.Remove cover.Keep bolts in their respective holes.
Image

Shim with a little magnet,keep with cover
Image

Easy peasy
Image

This circlip separates childs from mens
Image

I had such high hope in these 5$ circlip pliers
Image
Image

So to the tool store I went
Image

DO IT
Image

Done
Image

Expensive pliers bloody nosed
Image
Rust Bucket
Posts: 109
Joined: Dec 27, 2020 1:06 PM
Location: Montreal

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Rust Bucket »

Get that thing out
Image
Image

Remember propane is your friend
Image
Image

Removed front and rear case bolts and rain stopped the day
Image

Anyway this is as far as I can go without a tool to pull the cases.I have acces to a machine shop.I am thinking a simple
puller like this that would screw on casing thread.
Image

Now I dont know how heavy duty I must make this tool.I think the front case need like 10ton of force.But the Getrag
special tool does'nt look exceptionally strong to me.
Image

Next step is removing these two bearings before pulling the front case,right?
ImageImage

"One does'nt simply open a 265.And one does'nt know how to open a 265,before he did opened a 265.There lie the mystery,of the 265."
Sagi
Posts: 126
Joined: Oct 14, 2016 7:54 PM

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Sagi »

https://dswaelzlager.de/Vierpunktlager- ... singkaefig
This is a reference lager that I found in Germany. I've ordered 3 and it's in my L.A mail box, I was planning to send one for the video and the rest to Israel.do you have this bearing ? Did you get all the available parts ?
Rust Bucket
Posts: 109
Joined: Dec 27, 2020 1:06 PM
Location: Montreal

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Rust Bucket »

Have'nt gotten any new parts yet.I have a bunch of spare parts that came with the transmission,I made another thread about those because I
have a hard time identifying them.It's nice to know input shaft bearings are availible.I'll try my best not to damage the one on the transmission
upon removal because it's kinda expensive but hey no big deal if I damage it at least it exist.
test5
Posts: 93
Joined: May 05, 2011 9:38 AM

Re: Opening the 265

Post by test5 »

Rust Bucket wrote: Aug 07, 2021 11:58 PM Anyway this is as far as I can go without a tool to pull the cases.I have acces to a machine shop.I am thinking a simple
puller like this that would screw on casing thread.
Image

Now I dont know how heavy duty I must make this tool.I think the front case need like 10ton of force.But the Getrag
special tool does'nt look exceptionally strong to me.
Image
I found a video and a post that shows a homemade tool using readily available plumbing parts. You will have to machine it a bit to clear the two bearings on the G265:

https://youtu.be/cRjkt6Vey14

https://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=28588 (you have to click on the picture links in the thread)
Rust Bucket wrote: Aug 07, 2021 11:58 PM
Next step is removing these two bearings before pulling the front case,right?
ImageImage

"One does'nt simply open a 265.And one does'nt know how to open a 265,before he did opened a 265.There lie the mystery,of the 265."
According to the Bentley e28 service manual, the next step is to remove the front case. So the answer is no.
Click
Posts: 63
Joined: Jul 08, 2014 12:48 PM
Location: Reading, PA

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Click »

Good to see some progress made.

I forgot another thing I saw a while back. MM posted a time lapse video of taking the case off of one. A bit hard to follow since it goes so fast but it looks like they use a special tool to get the front section off and the rear section comes off with some prying.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1240246756008036
Federico
Posts: 545
Joined: Sep 16, 2013 6:38 PM
Location: Argentina / California

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Federico »

Great thread; subscribed!

My 2 cents for the next guy doing this: for those heavy duty snap rings, you need a set of expanding pliers:

Image
Rust Bucket
Posts: 109
Joined: Dec 27, 2020 1:06 PM
Location: Montreal

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Rust Bucket »

Nice design that allow use of a common puller.I am looking around for materials to build my own.

I got lucky guys.I put my hands on a 1985 manual 735i,equiped with the 265 from factory.It is worth mentionning the first buyer I shifted,got so
pissed that he threatened the seller,who got genuinely scared and called the police.I also fought a price war with a 3rd and a fourth buyer.Took
me 24h and I was in a field at midnight,800km away from home,securing the car on a trailer.

I also remember that time a guy from Massachussets shifted me for a tranny in Ottawa.I swear the guy must have jump in the car,then contacted
the seller while driving.I still wonder to this day,if he stopped for a piss.That day I realised,the Getrag 265 is the major league of parts hunting.

We got to a point,it's easier to just figure out how to repair the damn thing.So few shops specialized in these and frankly,too damn expensive.
On top of that,I heard bad stories on most of these shops and some just stop working on the 265.

Very useful stuff so far on this thread.I am working on the puller,be patient might take some time.Get back to you soon.
vinceg101
Posts: 4802
Joined: Jun 20, 2007 2:40 AM
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Opening the 265

Post by vinceg101 »

If you've not read this thread regarding that large Input Shaft Bearing that is NLA, please do:
https://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?f=4 ... g#p1433925

The end result (or current status) is that there are a pair of board members here that have modified modern standard FAG bearings to replace the NLA version. One of which is being installed into one of my G265/6's presently after it was thoroughly vetted in one of their transmissions.
Click
Posts: 63
Joined: Jul 08, 2014 12:48 PM
Location: Reading, PA

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Click »

vinceg101 wrote: Aug 12, 2021 11:19 AM If you've not read this thread regarding that large Input Shaft Bearing that is NLA, please do:
https://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?f=4 ... g#p1433925

The end result (or current status) is that there are a pair of board members here that have modified modern standard FAG bearings to replace the NLA version. One of which is being installed into one of my G265/6's presently after it was thoroughly vetted in one of their transmissions.
Adding an interference fit ring to an existing bearing is pretty brilliant, although I have to concur with the 2nd to last post of that thread that the SKF QJ307MA bearing seems to be a more correct bearing to start out with. I have a handful of the input bearings, I got them from a bearing supplier a little while ago. They seem to be identical to the ones Ivo had. They came in a red white and blue non-FAG box and have matching hand etched numbers on the races. Despite the box, they seem to be the real deal with the typical FAG markings. The ECS tuning picture for the genuine bearing has the hand etched numbers as well.
The same 2nd to last post brings up concerns with dimensional differences between the Ivo / Munich icons bearings. I just measured mine and the overall thickness, C per that posters diagram, is 20mm for the outer race like he reports but the inner race is 21mm which is the spec per realoem/bmw.

One other thing to note, everyone goes on and on about the step making this a special bearing but no one mentions that there is also a groove cut in one of the inner races that locates it to a pin on the input shaft gear. You can see this in the factory instructions LeiseyJr posted on Jul 18, 2019 10:15 AM in the third image down in the linked thread. This does not seem to be accounted for in the munich icons bearing.
Sagi
Posts: 126
Joined: Oct 14, 2016 7:54 PM

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Sagi »

I think the main bearing discussion should continue at the main bearing thread.
Rust Bucket
Posts: 109
Joined: Dec 27, 2020 1:06 PM
Location: Montreal

Re: Opening the 265

Post by Rust Bucket »

Very good link.It would be no problem for me to machine a groove in a plain bearing if I cant find a flanged bearing.And even then,the idea of using
a 30$ bearing instead of 300$ is appealing.

You guys are too fast for me,talking about assembling the thing,I have'nt even opened it yet!But I dont mind,it's all good knowledge.

So,I found that big ACME threaded rod,1.25" OD
Image

Shall pull decently :) Cant work on it during week end but will get back to it next week.

Just to be clear,the concensus is I pull the front case with bearings still in place,and I should'nt even care heating said bearings?
test5
Posts: 93
Joined: May 05, 2011 9:38 AM

Re: Opening the 265

Post by test5 »

Rust Bucket wrote: Aug 14, 2021 12:39 AM So,I found that big ACME threaded rod,1.25" OD
Image

Shall pull decently :) Cant work on it during week end but will get back to it next week.
:shock:
Rust Bucket wrote: Aug 14, 2021 12:39 AM Just to be clear,the concensus is I pull the front case with bearings still in place,and I should'nt even care heating said bearings?
That's what I gathered from the e28 Bentley manual and probably because it assumes that the special tools are used. As long as your puller (or other persuasion method) has the same effect of pushing the input shaft back from the front case, you should be ok.
Post Reply