"Ceramic" paint protection. What's the deal?

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knunger
Posts: 744
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: Tucson,AZ.

"Ceramic" paint protection. What's the deal?

Post by knunger »

Really now - what the hell is with this stuff? I've seen CEK's pics and on my monitor they look incredible
Here's my questions:
1. What is this shit and why is it different?
2. Does it hide paint defects? It's been 5 yrs since I painted my car so its got lots of little scratches and swirls (and some not so little)...
3. How does a pro application differ from what I can buy at Autozone?
4. How much should I expect to pay for a pro application?
5. How long does one application realistically last?

Will I notice the difference on my zinno '86 535is? You St Paddys guys know my car so whaddaya think??

All comments appreciated!
Dub-Nub
Posts: 475
Joined: Sep 11, 2014 1:33 PM

Re: "Ceramic" paint protection. What's the deal?

Post by Dub-Nub »

knunger wrote: Apr 08, 2021 10:09 PM Really now - what the hell is with this stuff? I've seen CEK's pics and on my monitor they look incredible
Here's my questions:
1. What is this shit and why is it different?
2. Does it hide paint defects? It's been 5 yrs since I painted my car so its got lots of little scratches and swirls (and some not so little)...
3. How does a pro application differ from what I can buy at Autozone?
4. How much should I expect to pay for a pro application?
5. How long does one application realistically last?

Will I notice the difference on my zinno '86 535is? You St Paddys guys know my car so whaddaya think??

All comments appreciated!
Sold me e28 7 months ago and decided to check out forum again. I can help since I own a detailing business.

1. Liquid that hardens when exposed to uv and temperature. Think of it as "wax on steroids". It's long term protection much like applying another coat of clearcoat.
2. No it does not hide defects. You will want them removed preferrably.
3. There are many different companies that chemically make up their own costing recipe. Some coatings are great and strong while others are terrible. Most Amazon sold coatings are poor.
4. I charge 750 for a small car and 5yr coating, or1100 for a large truck. Other shops in the area charge double.
5. How long it lasts depends on how you plan to take care,what products you will use on washes, how good the coating.

I use undrdog coating and it's very good and cheap.. My testing has been excellent..
BDKawey
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sep 15, 2011 11:05 PM
Location: Carrollton, Ohio

Re: "Ceramic" paint protection. What's the deal?

Post by BDKawey »

Can agree with everything Dub-Nub stated. I had my s4 ceramic coated with miyabi coat and ISM, products from "kamikaze". those prices he stated are I would say on par with what you can expect to pay for the treatment here in Ohio. I used the help and guidance of a professional shop I am close with. he sold me some of the product that he himself uses at his shop.

the coating hardens like glass and will resist scratching but dont call it scratch proof. at his shop for display purposes he has a cube made of solid coating. it hardens like a resin.

can be done yourself but you want to get all of your paint correction done first or you'll be locking it in for awhile. maybe use a more forgiving product if you plan to apply yourself. you can leave streaks and imperfections if done incorrectly.

it will also remain extremely hydrophobic for a long time, perhaps the life of the coating. giving you the beads of water that you would expect from a fresh wax.
knunger
Posts: 744
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: Tucson,AZ.

Re: "Ceramic" paint protection. What's the deal?

Post by knunger »

Thank you Gents-
Just what I was looking for!

LOVE this forum!
Mike W.
Posts: 26872
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: California Whine Country

Re: "Ceramic" paint protection. What's the deal?

Post by Mike W. »

Interesting. I was on a Meguiars forum one night and was reading about I think it was a polymer coating. There was a Meguiar rep on and without acting like a salesman, did pretty much say the stuff just didn't wear out. Although he did allow the shine wasn't quite as good as a good wax. I've kind of been meaning to follow up on it but have yet to do so. So I wonder if this is the same stuff or something different, which is what it sounds like.

Oddly at the website all the Undrdog products are listed as unavailable.
Dub-Nub
Posts: 475
Joined: Sep 11, 2014 1:33 PM

Re: "Ceramic" paint protection. What's the deal?

Post by Dub-Nub »

Mike W. wrote: Apr 13, 2021 12:04 PM Interesting. I was on a Meguiars forum one night and was reading about I think it was a polymer coating. There was a Meguiar rep on and without acting like a salesman, did pretty much say the stuff just didn't wear out. Although he did allow the shine wasn't quite as good as a good wax. I've kind of been meaning to follow up on it but have yet to do so. So I wonder if this is the same stuff or something different, which is what it sounds like.

Oddly at the website all the Undrdog products are listed as unavailable.
Undrdog is selling out faster then he is restocking so it's worth waiting. He will have the 5 year coating in stock this Friday.

Classic cars look better with good old fashioned carnauba wax. It provided a much richer shine but that's all its good for.

If you enjoy sitting in your garage on a Saturday and waxing the old girl then I'd day a coating is not for you. You won't see any benefit.

If your life is busy and you want a way to easily wash and take care of the cars then a coating is great.

Polymer sealant is not in the same category as a coating. There are graphene, ceramic, Teflon, etc. Based coatings. Undrdog is Teflon based. Works very well.

If applied correctly and a good costing product then you will see a huge difference in ease of maintenance when compared to carnauba or polymer based sealant like collinite.
gadget73
Posts: 1176
Joined: Nov 22, 2017 10:30 PM
Location: New Jersey

Re: "Ceramic" paint protection. What's the deal?

Post by gadget73 »

considering this for at least my truck. It lives outside, and frankly I'm not all that motivated to buff and shine it all the time. If I can put something on it that will let me do a quick wash and go I'm happy. Prob would go with a DIY thing though, a grand is a lot to spring for a 10 year old Chevy truck just so I can be lazy about detailing.
Mike W.
Posts: 26872
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: California Whine Country

Re: "Ceramic" paint protection. What's the deal?

Post by Mike W. »

Dub-Nub wrote: Apr 13, 2021 2:22 PM
Mike W. wrote: Apr 13, 2021 12:04 PM Interesting. I was on a Meguiars forum one night and was reading about I think it was a polymer coating. There was a Meguiar rep on and without acting like a salesman, did pretty much say the stuff just didn't wear out. Although he did allow the shine wasn't quite as good as a good wax. I've kind of been meaning to follow up on it but have yet to do so. So I wonder if this is the same stuff or something different, which is what it sounds like.

Oddly at the website all the Undrdog products are listed as unavailable.
Undrdog is selling out faster then he is restocking so it's worth waiting. He will have the 5 year coating in stock this Friday.

Classic cars look better with good old fashioned carnauba wax. It provided a much richer shine but that's all its good for.
Not likely that I'd be inclined to do it, but what would wax on top do? Is the ceramic kind of like the difference between a clearcoat car and a single stage paint, the latter of which I feel has a deeper shine, clearcoat has kind of a surface shine to my eyes.
If you enjoy sitting in your garage on a Saturday and waxing the old girl then I'd day a coating is not for you. You won't see any benefit.
Trust me, I do not. I like the result, but emphatically not the process.
If your life is busy and you want a way to easily wash and take care of the cars then a coating is great.
Sounds like a win to me.
Polymer sealant is not in the same category as a coating. There are graphene, ceramic, Teflon, etc. Based coatings. Undrdog is Teflon based. Works very well.

If applied correctly and a good costing product then you will see a huge difference in ease of maintenance when compared to carnauba or polymer based sealant like collinite.
Good info, thank you.
Dub-Nub
Posts: 475
Joined: Sep 11, 2014 1:33 PM

Re: "Ceramic" paint protection. What's the deal?

Post by Dub-Nub »

Mike W. wrote: Apr 13, 2021 3:58 PM
Dub-Nub wrote: Apr 13, 2021 2:22 PM
Mike W. wrote: Apr 13, 2021 12:04 PM Interesting. I was on a Meguiars forum one night and was reading about I think it was a polymer coating. There was a Meguiar rep on and without acting like a salesman, did pretty much say the stuff just didn't wear out. Although he did allow the shine wasn't quite as good as a good wax. I've kind of been meaning to follow up on it but have yet to do so. So I wonder if this is the same stuff or something different, which is what it sounds like.

Oddly at the website all the Undrdog products are listed as unavailable.
Undrdog is selling out faster then he is restocking so it's worth waiting. He will have the 5 year coating in stock this Friday.

Classic cars look better with good old fashioned carnauba wax. It provided a much richer shine but that's all its good for.
Not likely that I'd be inclined to do it, but what would wax on top do? Is the ceramic kind of like the difference between a clearcoat car and a single stage paint, the latter of which I feel has a deeper shine, clearcoat has kind of a surface shine to my eyes.
If you enjoy sitting in your garage on a Saturday and waxing the old girl then I'd day a coating is not for you. You won't see any benefit.
Trust me, I do not. I like the result, but emphatically not the process.
If your life is busy and you want a way to easily wash and take care of the cars then a coating is great.
Sounds like a win to me.
Polymer sealant is not in the same category as a coating. There are graphene, ceramic, Teflon, etc. Based coatings. Undrdog is Teflon based. Works very well.

If applied correctly and a good costing product then you will see a huge difference in ease of maintenance when compared to carnauba or polymer based sealant like collinite.
Good info, thank you.

The concept of a coating is to prevent anything from sticking to it. That's why beading is incredible. Bug removal is painless. Etc.

The wax just won't stick because surface is too slick. It's just not necessary eirher because no additional benefit will occur.
cek
Posts: 9206
Joined: Mar 18, 2013 6:25 PM
Location: Durango
Contact:

Re: "Ceramic" paint protection. What's the deal?

Post by cek »

I now have pretty extensive experience with both DIY and pro.

Although with pro I've only had it done by one guy on four cars. So other products and appliers may have different results.

In my opinion pro is worth it. Those of you that know me and all that I'm anything but a cheap bastard. I'm willing (and able) to pay for quality. Vlad was done over 3 years ago and I daily drove it while it was in Utah IN THE WINTER. I would maybe multiple times a week run it through a brushless car wash. The finish is still as beautiful and beady (technical term) as it was when I picked it up. I think I spent $2,300. It was a five year guarantee job. I recently had Julie's car done for about the same.

For all of it and especially the DIY, prep is everything. And by prep I mean polishing. The stuff does not hide blemishes it covers them and protects them. If you are able and willing to really really polish a car, the application of the DIY ceramic is cake.

But the DIY stuff I used does not last nearly as long. It's only been about a year and a half and Maytag is due for another treatment. My son's 2018 vw altrack also needs to be redone after about the same amount of time. Both still bead very well but not as pronounced.

I do not understand the difference between the pro stuff and the DIY stuff and I don't know if you can buy DIY stuff that lasts as long as the pro stuff. I can tell you that I will not hesitate again to hire Dusty to do a pro job on any car. It gives me very warm feels of confidence knowing that Minerva's new paint is so well protected.

And I know that Uglina's ancient s***** paint is not going to oxidize anymore.
Dub-Nub
Posts: 475
Joined: Sep 11, 2014 1:33 PM

Re: "Ceramic" paint protection. What's the deal?

Post by Dub-Nub »

cek wrote: Apr 13, 2021 9:50 PM I now have pretty extensive experience with both DIY and pro.

Although with pro I've only had it done by one guy on four cars. So other products and appliers may have different results.

In my opinion pro is worth it. Those of you that know me and all that I'm anything but a cheap bastard. I'm willing (and able) to pay for quality. Vlad was done over 3 years ago and I daily drove it while it was in Utah IN THE WINTER. I would maybe multiple times a week run it through a brushless car wash. The finish is still as beautiful and beady (technical term) as it was when I picked it up. I think I spent $2,300. It was a five year guarantee job. I recently had Julie's car done for about the same.

For all of it and especially the DIY, prep is everything. And by prep I mean polishing. The stuff does not hide blemishes it covers them and protects them. If you are able and willing to really really polish a car, the application of the DIY ceramic is cake.

But the DIY stuff I used does not last nearly as long. It's only been about a year and a half and Maytag is due for another treatment. My son's 2018 vw altrack also needs to be redone after about the same amount of time. Both still bead very well but not as pronounced.

I do not understand the difference between the pro stuff and the DIY stuff and I don't know if you can buy DIY stuff that lasts as long as the pro stuff. I can tell you that I will not hesitate again to hire Dusty to do a pro job on any car. It gives me very warm feels of confidence knowing that Minerva's new paint is so well protected.

And I know that Uglina's ancient s***** paint is not going to oxidize anymore.
I urge you to try undrdog. His company purpose is to get coatings out of the 2k range and offer an affordable coating that can last.
Mike W.
Posts: 26872
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: California Whine Country

Re: "Ceramic" paint protection. What's the deal?

Post by Mike W. »

So how well, if at all, does the ceramic coating protect against UV breaking down clearcoat? Or is it too new to say?
cek
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Joined: Mar 18, 2013 6:25 PM
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Contact:

Re: "Ceramic" paint protection. What's the deal?

Post by cek »

Mike W. wrote: Apr 14, 2021 12:27 PM So how well, if at all, does the ceramic coating protect against UV breaking down clearcoat? Or is it too new to say?
Apparently very well. The CS-II stuff my guy uses claims strong uv protection.
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