Holy Grail Labs - Blade Fuse Upgrade Kits

E28 technical advice asked and given! Troubleshooting, modifications and more.
1st 5er
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Re: Blade Fuse Retrofit Kits

Post by 1st 5er »

:wave:

Damn Russians.
virginpilot
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Re: Blade Fuse Retrofit Kits

Post by virginpilot »

I feel for you, everything is going up except wages. I’ll get my order is tonight before you raise your prices. Thank you for developing this great upgrade for our classic BMWs 🤗
TheYoungSir
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Re: Blade Fuse Retrofit Kits

Post by TheYoungSir »

I just installed mine - this is an amazing piece of kit. I 100% recommend this to anyone who wants to eliminate a major source of gremlins, glitchy high-current circuits, and any of the other known issues with the torpedo-fuses (everyone).

I always think that there's never enough written down on a topic, so here are my detailed comments on the kit and the installation.

Comments (not complaints, just observations):
  1. There are more pins underneath the conversion kit than there are on the original setup (at least on my car).
    Make sure to put holes in the plastic fusebox itself and the cardboard guide for these additional pins.
    It's worth noting which pins were the new ones, since they will be unused after reinstallation.
  2. ATC fuses don't really seem to offer an 8A fuse, so this kit is populated with 7.5A fuses.
    My high-beams blew the 7.5A fuses shortly after installation, so those have now been changed to 10A fuses. (Possibly related to running to Euro low-beams?)
  3. The Rearwindow defroster/sunroof fuse provided is 16A instead of 25A
    I am unsure why this is the case, but I will go back to 25A if(/when) the 16A fuse blows
  4. To avoid degrading my fusebox grommets any more when passing through the grounding wire for the LEDs, I cut the cable, passed the wire through the lower (front of car) harness, then soldered it back together.
    I ended up using the fender grounding point for this cable; the bolt fits the ring terminal perfectly.
  5. At the end of the day, installation is even more straightforwards than it seems.
For the lazy installation method, there is enough slack in the two main wiring bundles connected to the fusebox to avoid disconnecting anything.
I un-ziptied the harnesses and moved the cruise control module which gave enough room to rotate the upper-fuse box 90 degrees side to side.
If you're dextrous and take enough photographs, it's possible to re-wire the box in that state and avoid disconnecting anything else (C101, other relays, etc.).
Not sure I'd recommend it, but it went very well for me.

Additionally, my photo-taking strategy was as follows: Take picture of 2-3 connectors showing fusebox underside and wire colors. Disconnect the depicted connectors and loosely ziptie them together. Repeat until all connectors are removed.
Reinstallation is as simple as looking at the last photo, finding the bundle for that picture, connecting those, going to the next photo, then repeating the process until everything is connected.
Galahad
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Re: Blade Fuse Retrofit Kits

Post by Galahad »

TheYoungSir wrote: Jun 30, 2022 1:58 PM I just installed mine - this is an amazing piece of kit. I 100% recommend this to anyone who wants to eliminate a major source of gremlins, glitchy high-current circuits, and any of the other known issues with the torpedo-fuses (everyone).

I always think that there's never enough written down on a topic, so here are my detailed comments on the kit and the installation.

Comments (not complaints, just observations):
  1. There are more pins underneath the conversion kit than there are on the original setup (at least on my car).
    Make sure to put holes in the plastic fusebox itself and the cardboard guide for these additional pins.
    It's worth noting which pins were the new ones, since they will be unused after reinstallation.
  2. ATC fuses don't really seem to offer an 8A fuse, so this kit is populated with 7.5A fuses.
    My high-beams blew the 7.5A fuses shortly after installation, so those have now been changed to 10A fuses. (Possibly related to running to Euro low-beams?)
  3. The Rearwindow defroster/sunroof fuse provided is 16A instead of 25A
    I am unsure why this is the case, but I will go back to 25A if(/when) the 16A fuse blows
  4. To avoid degrading my fusebox grommets any more when passing through the grounding wire for the LEDs, I cut the cable, passed the wire through the lower (front of car) harness, then soldered it back together.
    I ended up using the fender grounding point for this cable; the bolt fits the ring terminal perfectly.
  5. At the end of the day, installation is even more straightforwards than it seems.
For the lazy installation method, there is enough slack in the two main wiring bundles connected to the fusebox to avoid disconnecting anything.
I un-ziptied the harnesses and moved the cruise control module which gave enough room to rotate the upper-fuse box 90 degrees side to side.
If you're dextrous and take enough photographs, it's possible to re-wire the box in that state and avoid disconnecting anything else (C101, other relays, etc.).
Not sure I'd recommend it, but it went very well for me.

Additionally, my photo-taking strategy was as follows: Take picture of 2-3 connectors showing fusebox underside and wire colors. Disconnect the depicted connectors and loosely ziptie them together. Repeat until all connectors are removed.
Reinstallation is as simple as looking at the last photo, finding the bundle for that picture, connecting those, going to the next photo, then repeating the process until everything is connected.
Thank you so much for the review!

Comments (just so everyone knows why I decided the way I did):
  1. I included a blade pin wherever there was a hole just in case there are slight harness differences between cars. I know the mid-frame casting never changed so this was the safest bet. The plastic shouldn't need holes cut, but the paper likely will.
  2. At least one other person running euro lights in a US car has blown the 7.5A fuse, putting a 10A in is fine. (see this discussion about Fuse #5 and this general blog post for more details on why uprating is ok)
  3. Some cars had 25A for fuse 13, some had 16A; I decided to spec conservatively. I haven't heard of anyone that has blown that fuse. If it lets go throw a 25A at it. Good catch, nobody else has commented on that.
  4. The ground cable is designed to go to the fender ground, not the battery - not entirely sure if that's obvious in the instructions. I've gotten lazy and drilled a hole in the side of the fuse box before, passing it through the grommet is recommended for looks but doesn't matter for functionality.
I've gotten away with loosening both upper and lower harnesses, moving the cruise actuator and flipping the box over too. You want to be careful you don't pull too much on the wires.

Good tips for the photos.
TheYoungSir
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Re: Blade Fuse Retrofit Kits

Post by TheYoungSir »

Galahad - glad the review was encouraging! Always happy to support people producing quality kit.
Galahad wrote: Jun 30, 2022 5:04 PM <snip>
  • I included a blade pin wherever there was a hole just in case there are slight harness differences between cars. I know the mid-frame casting never changed so this was the safest bet. The plastic shouldn't need holes cut, but the paper likely will.
<snip>
I only had to cut open one slot for the installation - see the line indicated in red.
To describe it - there are four slots on the bottom left, (left-to-right) 1234. On the second row from the bottom, my mid-frame has slots for spaces 2 and 3, while the retrofit has blades for spaces 2 and 4.
Here is the image showing the interference. I used some pliers to rip away and file down the offending area for the installation.
The physical difference didn't affect the electrical operation, of course, and my headlights are correctly powered.

Image

More images of the mid-frame and install here.
Galahad
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Re: Blade Fuse Retrofit Kits

Post by Galahad »

TheYoungSir wrote: Jun 30, 2022 5:29 PM
Image
God damn it. That's supposed to be on the other side of the fuse. Thanks for pointing it out, I'll include something in the rest of the relevant shipments to make it clear.

I just double checked the pcb layout history, that pin moved when I updated from kicad 5 to kicad 6 (I had to basically redo the whole layout because reasons). This will only be an issue on the -11 boards, I had changes I wanted to make anyway. Sigh.

Your fuses 13/14 were seriously melted, geez.
Galahad
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Re: Blade Fuse Retrofit Kits

Post by Galahad »

Just to keep everyone in the loop:
I've contacted everyone with boards that have the misplaced blade issue to let them know about it and offered to exchange them when the updated ones are ready.
I also did a full installation walkthrough video on one of my cars since people had been requesting one, I'm currently still editing it. That should be available in a few days.
Here's a link to an excerpted section specific to handling cutting the additional hole: https://youtu.be/iHnT49actrw
I'll post a link to the full installation video when it's all done.
cek
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Re: Blade Fuse Retrofit Kits

Post by cek »

cek wrote: Jun 24, 2022 12:49 PM
virginpilot wrote: Jun 23, 2022 8:13 PM Thank you everyone for your advice! I’ll definitely do that. My e12 is garaged and only goes out in fine weather and at the moment it’s cold and wet here in Melbourne, Australia so I definitely won’t be rushing it! I’ll order one later today. I don’t suppose there are any discount codes? 😜 I’m just being cheeky 🤗
Cheers Scott.
Sadly, we will be raising prices soon given the significant increase in component costs driven by supply-chain issues, fuel price increases, and the chaotic global situation. Just say'n.
Image

https://www.holygraillabs.com/
virginpilot
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Re: Blade Fuse Retrofit Kits

Post by virginpilot »

I just ordered mine tonight before I actually saw this so good timing!
I’m looking forward to getting this for my e12 🤗
Galahad
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Re: Blade Fuse Retrofit Kits

Post by Galahad »

I finished editing the full install video instructions, view them here: E28 Blade Fuse Retrofit Kit Install Walkthrough
BRRV
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Re: Blade Fuse Retrofit Kits

Post by BRRV »

I'm waiting for mine, ordered a while ago, but before the price increase.. and will install it in a NOS fuse box assembly that I've had for decades in the spares. I'm hoping this will cure some interesting voltage issues with instruments and so on. I'm going to add another ground off the alternator at the same time, back to earth. I keep chasing gremlins!
Galahad
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Re: Blade Fuse Retrofit Kits

Post by Galahad »

BRRV wrote: Jul 17, 2022 2:18 PM I'm waiting for mine, ordered a while ago, but before the price increase.. and will install it in a NOS fuse box assembly that I've had for decades in the spares. I'm hoping this will cure some interesting voltage issues with instruments and so on. I'm going to add another ground off the alternator at the same time, back to earth. I keep chasing gremlins!
Shipments should pick up again soon, waiting on a couple parts still.

Alternator grounding: I'd be more inclined to redo the alternator to block line, then make a line from the driver's motor mount to the battery instead of from the alternator to the battery directly. This significantly shortens the current path to the battery for both the starter and the alternator and you avoid any chance of starter current going through the alternator-specific ground.
BRRV
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Re: Blade Fuse Retrofit Kits

Post by BRRV »

Alternator grounding: I'd be more inclined to redo the alternator to block line, then make a line from the driver's motor mount to the battery instead of from the alternator to the battery directly. This significantly shortens the current path to the battery for both the starter and the alternator and you avoid any chance of starter current going through the alternator-specific ground.
Okay, that's what I'll do. The alternator to block line is original, and likely a little cooked anyway. Thanks for the tip. And for the update ;)
Galahad
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Re: Blade Fuse Retrofit Kits

Post by Galahad »

Parts arrived and I confirmed the design is fixed. I should be able to get existing orders out by the end of the month - the garage is extremely hot at the moment (just like everywhere else) which is slowing me down a bit
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Re: Blade Fuse Retrofit Kits

Post by cek »

Image
Shawn D.
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Re: Blade Fuse Retrofit Kits

Post by Shawn D. »

cek wrote: Aug 03, 2022 4:36 PM Image
Too bad Y'all enshrined that incorrect quote from The Holy Grail on the boards! :rofl:

The guy never says "yet," Y'all. :tsk:
cek
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Re: Blade Fuse Retrofit Kits

Post by cek »

You're not wrong. Thanks for pointing it though.
Shawn D.
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Re: Blade Fuse Retrofit Kits

Post by Shawn D. »

LOL, anytime!
Dgohwanger
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Re: Blade Fuse Retrofit Kits

Post by Dgohwanger »

I installed mine this weekend. It looks great! Thanks, cek for the troubleshooting help!

This morning I noticed my anti-lock brake light was on...has anyone had this issue after the retrofit installation? Maybe it's just a bad sensor and timing coincidence...?
cek
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Re: Blade Fuse Retrofit Kits

Post by cek »

Dgohwanger wrote: Aug 15, 2022 1:33 PM I installed mine this weekend. It looks great! Thanks, cek for the troubleshooting help!

This morning I noticed my anti-lock brake light was on...has anyone had this issue after the retrofit installation? Maybe it's just a bad sensor and timing coincidence...?
Likely a coincidence, but let's dive in and find out...

Using the '85 E28 ETM since you have a 1985 535i:
Image
Image

ABS itself runs directly from the battery (ABS ECU gets its power from the Ignition switch in RUN position, and the ABS Pump gets power directly from the battery). Fuse 12 does go to the brake switch, and when the pedal is pushed, 12V goes to Pin 25 of the ABS ECU.

I cannot find any more info on the ABS Warning Indicator on the diagrams for the instrument cluster. Never noticed this before. I checked the '88 ETM and it's not there either. Odd (maybe I'm not seeing it?).

Anyway, from the above pages, it appears the ABS Indicator light gets 12V from the ignition switch when in "RUN" via the .75 GN wire that also powers the ABS ECU (Pin 1) ("M").

The ABS Indicator light ALSO gets 12V from two other sources:

- Pin 1 from the ABS Hydrauluc unit (.75 GY/RD).
- Pin 29 BK/GY on the ABS ECU) if it detects a bad sensor amongst other things.

I don't think it's possible for that light to come on unless EITHER Pin 29 of the ECU or Pin 1 of the ABS unit is hot.

Further, I don't see any wires in the fuse box itself that deal directly with the ABS system (other than Fuse 12. See xls here: https://kindel-my.sharepoint.com/:x:/p/ ... i7Jg-h-2kg

Thus I think this is a coincidence and either

- An ABS sensor has failed (a common thing)
- The ABS pump has failed (uncommon IIRC)
- The ABS ECU has failed (uncommon IIRC)

Your best bet now is to read one of the many threads on testing the ABS sensors...
Dgohwanger
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Re: Holy Grail Labs - Blade Fuse Upgrade Kits

Post by Dgohwanger »

cek wrote: Aug 15, 2022 3:28 PM
Dgohwanger wrote: Aug 15, 2022 1:33 PM I installed mine this weekend. It looks great! Thanks, cek for the troubleshooting help!

This morning I noticed my anti-lock brake light was on...has anyone had this issue after the retrofit installation? Maybe it's just a bad sensor and timing coincidence...?
Likely a coincidence, but let's dive in and find out...

Using the '85 E28 ETM since you have a 1985 535i:
Image
Image

ABS itself runs directly from the battery (ABS ECU gets its power from the Ignition switch in RUN position, and the ABS Pump gets power directly from the battery). Fuse 12 does go to the brake switch, and when the pedal is pushed, 12V goes to Pin 25 of the ABS ECU.

I cannot find any more info on the ABS Warning Indicator on the diagrams for the instrument cluster. Never noticed this before. I checked the '88 ETM and it's not there either. Odd (maybe I'm not seeing it?).

Anyway, from the above pages, it appears the ABS Indicator light gets 12V from the ignition switch when in "RUN" via the .75 GN wire that also powers the ABS ECU (Pin 1) ("M").

The ABS Indicator light ALSO gets 12V from two other sources:

- Pin 1 from the ABS Hydrauluc unit (.75 GY/RD).
- Pin 29 BK/GY on the ABS ECU) if it detects a bad sensor amongst other things.

I don't think it's possible for that light to come on unless EITHER Pin 29 of the ECU or Pin 1 of the ABS unit is hot.

Further, I don't see any wires in the fuse box itself that deal directly with the ABS system (other than Fuse 12. See xls here: https://kindel-my.sharepoint.com/:x:/p/ ... i7Jg-h-2kg

Thus I think this is a coincidence and either

- An ABS sensor has failed (a common thing)
- The ABS pump has failed (uncommon IIRC)
- The ABS ECU has failed (uncommon IIRC)

Your best bet now is to read one of the many threads on testing the ABS sensors...
Thanks, cek.

I'll look into it today after work. Hopefully it won't be too much of a dive but you never know. I may be calling you for some diagnostic tools! Keeping my fingers crossed.
Johannensc
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Re: Holy Grail Labs - Blade Fuse Upgrade Kits

Post by Johannensc »

Hey Galahad. I'm just installing mine in my e28 535 but car wont start. No LED on fuel pump fuse. Everything else seems to work. Plugs match the picture I took before. The car started last night before install
Galahad
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Re: Holy Grail Labs - Blade Fuse Upgrade Kits

Post by Galahad »

Johannensc wrote: Aug 18, 2022 11:00 PM Hey Galahad. I'm just installing mine in my e28 535 but car wont start. No LED on fuel pump fuse. Everything else seems to work. Plugs match the picture I took before. The car started last night before install
Thanks for reaching out! No light on the fuel pump fuse means the fuse isn't being powered. The ECU controls the fuel and only turns the pump on when it sees the engine cranking, so there's probably a problem in the power delivery to the fuel pump or to the ECU. Does the car crank when you try to start the car?
Johannensc
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Re: Holy Grail Labs - Blade Fuse Upgrade Kits

Post by Johannensc »

Galahad wrote: Aug 19, 2022 12:36 AM


Thanks for reaching out! No light on the fuel pump fuse means the fuse isn't being powered. The ECU controls the fuel and only turns the pump on when it sees the engine cranking, so there's probably a problem in the power delivery to the fuel pump or to the ECU. Does the car crank when you try to start the car?

Yes it cranks! Looks like the Main Relay is getting power but not getting the signal to turn on. Same with the fuel pump relay
Galahad
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Re: Holy Grail Labs - Blade Fuse Upgrade Kits

Post by Galahad »

Johannensc wrote: Aug 19, 2022 8:52 AM
Galahad wrote: Aug 19, 2022 12:36 AM


Thanks for reaching out! No light on the fuel pump fuse means the fuse isn't being powered. The ECU controls the fuel and only turns the pump on when it sees the engine cranking, so there's probably a problem in the power delivery to the fuel pump or to the ECU. Does the car crank when you try to start the car?

Yes it cranks! Looks like the Main Relay is getting power but not getting the signal to turn on. Same with the fuel pump relay
ECU controls both the main and fuel relays. Is the ECU getting power?
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