Rubber Cover Inside Fuel Filler Door?

E28 technical advice asked and given! Troubleshooting, modifications and more.
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davintosh
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Rubber Cover Inside Fuel Filler Door?

Post by davintosh »

I've determined that I need to replace the hoses going to the expansion tank in the trunk -- slight smell of gasoline in the trunk & cabin with the windows open -- but in looking things over I'm wondering two things; is there a trick to removing that rubber cover inside the fuel filler door? And will it survive the operation?

Also, is there a part number for that item, in case it needs to be replaced? I've dug through all the logical places in RealOEM and haven't found it.

Thanks!
Blue Shadow
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Post by Blue Shadow »

davintosh
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Post by davintosh »

Really? I saw that on RealOEM but didn't think it was the right shape. Part #16111152999. Got it!

Now the question is, does it just slip over the fuel filler neck?

Oh, and thanks!
Blue Shadow
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Post by Blue Shadow »

I have no idea. I have one for my E23 and it is sitting in the box getting hard and brittle, new from Da Pimp years ago as I have not found the push needed to do the hose replacement for the vapor tank.

Good luck.
Shawn D.
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Post by Shawn D. »

davintosh wrote:Now the question is, does it just slip over the fuel filler neck?
Yes, it "just" slips over the neck, if you consider "just" to include lots of contortion, cursing, and lubricant (and we're not talking some of bimmerguy2002's personal proclivities here).
rlomba8204
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Post by rlomba8204 »

This job is also on my to-do list. The reason I am waiting is that the smell seems to have dissipated after I tightened the clams on the fuel filler neck, and, per Mike W.'s advice, I am waiting for it to get warm outside. The reason is that if you start to fiddle with the rubber cover, you'll realize, as Shawn said, that it's a pain in the ass to get it off because it hardens over the years. Warmer weather, combined with putting a heat source on it, I am hoping, will make it sufficiently pliable to ease removal without requiring quite the littany of profanity that would otherwise be involved. The other part of my plan is to use a knife to cut it towards the back, horizontally, to ease removal.

But to make a long story short, I wouldn't try to remove it without it at least being warm outside. Otherwise it is more likely to be even more of a royal pain in the ass.

Also, as others have kindly shared with me, I will share with you that you will need probably two long nose pliers, one preferably bent nose, to fish the new lines through the body grommets, as well as a flex driver. Hth.
davintosh
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Post by davintosh »

rlomba8204 wrote:This job is also on my to-do list. The reason I am waiting is that the smell seems to have dissipated after I tightened the clams on the fuel filler neck, and, per Mike W.'s advice, I am waiting for it to get warm outside. The reason is that if you start to fiddle with the rubber cover, you'll realize, as Shawn said, that it's a pain in the ass to get it off because it hardens over the years. Warmer weather, combined with putting a heat source on it, I am hoping, will make it sufficiently pliable to ease removal without requiring quite the littany of profanity that would otherwise be involved. The other part of my plan is to use a knife to cut it towards the back, horizontally, to ease removal.

But to make a long story short, I wouldn't try to remove it without it at least being warm outside. Otherwise it is more likely to be even more of a royal pain in the ass.

Also, as others have kindly shared with me, I will share with you that you will need probably two long nose pliers, one preferably bent nose, to fish the new lines through the body grommets, as well as a flex driver. Hth.
Hmmmm... We're experiencing a heat wave in this neck of the woods, but that's all relative; highs in the 50's & 60's, which is a great thing :banana: but probably not warm enough to make a huge difference. What I might do as a stopgap is cut the original hoses where they go out of sight in the trunk and splice new hoses in between there and the expansion tank. That should help considerably I would think. I remember someone on a thread somewhere mentioning that method as an alternative.
Mike W.
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Post by Mike W. »

What I might do as a stopgap is cut the original hoses where they go out of sight in the trunk and splice new hoses in between there and the expansion tank.
I don't think that would do much, they leak at the ends, I think mostly at the tank ends, not in the middle.

As far as the boot at the gas filler, while I've never done it in cold weather, and it's always been a fight to get it off, it's always survived with minimal wear thru the process. I'd be surprised if you break it.
C.R. Krieger
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Post by C.R. Krieger »

rlomba8204 wrote:This job is also on my to-do list. The reason I am waiting is that the smell seems to have dissipated after I tightened the clams on the fuel filler neck,
Yeah; I hate those loose ones ...

Image
mercury26
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Post by mercury26 »

I have one sitting in my house also. Removed mine when I installed a new tank. It was such a huge PITA to remove, that I am waiting to install the new one when I get the car repainted.

Cheers,

Chuck
passwor3
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Post by passwor3 »

C.R. Krieger wrote:
rlomba8204 wrote:This job is also on my to-do list. The reason I am waiting is that the smell seems to have dissipated after I tightened the clams on the fuel filler neck,
Yeah; I hate those loose ones ...

Image
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Bimmerguy2002
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Post by Bimmerguy2002 »

Shawn D. wrote:
davintosh wrote:Now the question is, does it just slip over the fuel filler neck?
Yes, it "just" slips over the neck, if you consider "just" to include lots of contortion, cursing, and lubricant (and we're not talking some of bimmerguy2002's personal proclivities here).
I prefer a gallon of bacon grease, so i can grease my pigs up.
The_Patient
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Post by The_Patient »

my car smells like gas also when i go driving around. So, replacing #1 in that photo posted might solve the issue?
Mike W.
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Post by Mike W. »

The_Patient wrote:my car smells like gas also when i go driving around. So, replacing #1 in that photo posted might solve the issue?
No, that's just a rubber boot to keep the dirt and leaves out, it isn't really a seal. If your gas odor is from the back, it is quite possibly the vent hoses between the tank and the evap canister. Which are a PITA to change. If it's from the front of the car, it's probably a high pressure fuel line, all are suspect if they are original, though the one to the cold start valve seems to start leaking first more often than not.

It could be a bunch of things, those are the most likely.
bking
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Post by bking »

Is replacing tank Major PITA, PITA or just Pain? Thanks.
mercury26
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Post by mercury26 »

Having just replaced the tank, the worst part are the vent lines discussed earlier in the thread. Probably one of the biggest PITA on the car, IMO. The tank itself is not too bad, only three bolts holding it to the car.

Cheers,

Chuck
davintosh
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Post by davintosh »

I tore into this project last night, and got it done in a little over an hour. it wasn't exactly fun, but not exactly a pain in the a$$ either. About $10 for the hose & new clamps. Best part was driving with the sunroof open this morning without the usual unleaded high!

:banana: :banana: :banana:

That rubber boot in the fuel filler door though... That was probably the biggest pain in the whole project. It had to have been a lot more flexible when first installed, or was installed before the car was fully assembled because it sure didn't want to come out of there. I got it loose from around the filler neck by working a narrow flexible putty knife around it, getting it to the point where it would rotate about 5 degrees, but no amount of pulling or bending or twisting would get it out of there. I ended up making a single cut in the bottom side to split it open, and was then able to get it out without too much damage to it, and no damage to the paint.

The boot doesn't appear to be in too bad of shape; the feathered edges cracked and tore a bit in getting it out, and the part that wraps around the filler neck is broken up a bit. I think I'll treat the rubber with some kind of restorative goop, clean up the edges a bit, and then use a wire tie or something to snug it up around the filler neck when reinstalled.

One thing that really surprised me was the amount of sand and crud that had accumulated on a little ledge just below the fuel filler door. That's logical because it's almost in line with the spray from the rear wheel. Before I put the boot back in there I plan to hose that area out really well & make sure there's no rust starting in there. Modding that boot so it can be easily removed & replaced would make sense too I think, just to make sure the crud accumulation doesn't get out of hand down in there.
davintosh
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Post by davintosh »

Also, just for posterity's sake, when running the replacement hoses, it works best to start near the expansion tank and work toward the filler neck instead of the other way. The rubber grommets near the expansion tank pop out quite easily when pushed from the other side, plus it's easier to see where the hose goes when starting from that side. Running them from the filler door first has you feeling around blindly for the hole to run it through. I tried that route first, which resulted in a few scratches on my hand, a few choice words hurled, and the popping out of a grommet.

Better to learn from someone else's mistakes, eh?
baldwin8
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Post by baldwin8 »

Just to add my 2 cents, I had a similar smell of gas and it turned out to be rust problem at the top of the tank. Do you ever completely fill the tank? Watch for fuel leaking out when that happens. I had to replace the fuel tank.
davintosh
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Post by davintosh »

baldwin8 wrote:Just to add my 2 cents, I had a similar smell of gas and it turned out to be rust problem at the top of the tank. Do you ever completely fill the tank? Watch for fuel leaking out when that happens. I had to replace the fuel tank.
Thanks; I thought of that, but the smell was there pretty much all the time when the windows or sunroof was open, not just with a full tank. After replacing the hoses, it seemed that there was still a little lingering smell in it this afternoon on the drive home, but I'll give it a little more time to see if it improves.
BRRV
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Re: Rubber Cover Inside Fuel Filler Door?

Post by BRRV »

Dredging up an old thread: with regards the NLA rubber seal 16 11 1 152 999 - would the E12 seal, 16 11 1 121 878, work as a replacement? I see that the E12 fuel tank/ fuel feed lists the 999 number as 'ended' as well, but shows the other number, too. getbmwparts lists it as fitting the 633/635CSi. I haven't seen an E12/E24 up close for a few years, but as I recall there weren't a lot of differences that I can remember on the fuel filler. Any thoughts?
MattC
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Re: Rubber Cover Inside Fuel Filler Door?

Post by MattC »

BRRV wrote:Dredging up an old thread: with regards the NLA rubber seal 16 11 1 152 999 - would the E12 seal, 16 11 1 121 878, work as a replacement? I see that the E12 fuel tank/ fuel feed lists the 999 number as 'ended' as well, but shows the other number, too. getbmwparts lists it as fitting the 633/635CSi. I haven't seen an E12/E24 up close for a few years, but as I recall there weren't a lot of differences that I can remember on the fuel filler. Any thoughts?
I hope so! I just broke mine today trying to remove it from my 533i (split one side) and Stephen at BluntTech said that part# 16 11 1 121 878 superseded the original 16 11 1 152 999. SO... I have it on order now. I'll know more when it gets here in 8-10 days.
BRRV
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Re: Rubber Cover Inside Fuel Filler Door?

Post by BRRV »

Yea, I ordered one too...
foolio
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Re: Rubber Cover Inside Fuel Filler Door?

Post by foolio »

I know this is an old thread (could be worse) but I went down the path of the e24 gasket (16111119235 at FCP Euro). It’s pretty close but requires slight modification. The opening is a little small. Well, small enough to be impossible to get over the neck. The rubber around the fuel neck hole is just too thick. Plus it’s slightly shaped like a cone on both the front and back sides. If you cut off the raised cone part on the back and use a little silicone grease, you can shove it on. I was able to get it to fit very tightly this way around the neck, the top and the sides. However, it’s still tight to pull the bottom up. There is a gap because it is very slightly folded under. I think I can get it if I push from the wheel well underneath with just the right pry bar. I don’t think this will be liquid tight (I don’t think the original was honestly) but it should keep out dirt and debris quite well and it looks nice. Will try to post pics later.
jakecrayne
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Re: Rubber Cover Inside Fuel Filler Door?

Post by jakecrayne »

I just did this upgrade with the e24 seal, and its not too bad. It isn't the most perfect fit, but its better than the old cracking one. All that is required once you force/cut the old seal out is slight modification of the new e24 seal before installation. I simply flipped the seal over to the bottom and cut the extra lip of round area flush to the bottom of the seal, as well as cutting back the diagonal ribs about 1/4" from the round area. It should look fairly similar to the old seal at this point. I then stuck it in the oven on warm until it was nice and flexible. After cleaning the fuel filler neck area in preparation, i slipped the front (short) side of the seal under the lip of the sheet metal and starting at the front (nearest to you) i worked the round part around the filler neck finishing at the far side of the filler neck from you. after that i worked the seal to make it look decent. I used a long bar to push the front of the seal up a bit to meet the lip. It ain't perfect, but it's better than the old one. I am hoping it relaxes into place over the years.
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