szacsi72's 1984 Zinnoberrot 535i Build

General conversations about BMW E28s and the people who own them.
1st 5er
Posts: 21735
Joined: Jun 13, 2008 12:15 AM
Location: Cypress
Contact:

Re: szacsi72's E28 535i build thread - "The Reddie"

Post by 1st 5er »

:wave:
szacsi72 wrote: Mar 19, 2024 8:49 AM
Thank you. It took a good turn, I'm recovering very well. Physically, I'm pretty much recovered, apart from wound on my head, that I need to watch out for; and of course, I've lost a lot of body weight, so I'm very weak. But it's getting better.
Mentally I'm fine, just constantly tired...
Good news, glad to hear it.

I can empathize having recently gone thru a major event.
My bitch about the whole thing is we don't heal as quickly the older we get and typically don't get back to pre-event strength and stamina points.

Lovin' the fact that the build continues.
szacsi72
Posts: 223
Joined: Nov 13, 2022 3:41 AM
Location: Hungary

Re: szacsi72's E28 535i build thread - "The Reddie"

Post by szacsi72 »

1st 5er wrote: Mar 19, 2024 9:22 AM :wave:
szacsi72 wrote: Mar 19, 2024 8:49 AM
Thank you. It took a good turn, I'm recovering very well. Physically, I'm pretty much recovered, apart from wound on my head, that I need to watch out for; and of course, I've lost a lot of body weight, so I'm very weak. But it's getting better.
Mentally I'm fine, just constantly tired...
Good news, glad to hear it.

I can empathize having recently gone thru a major event.
My bitch about the whole thing is we don't heal as quickly the older we get and typically don't get back to pre-event strength and stamina points.

Lovin' the fact that the build continues.
I'm still young so I'm recovering OK, but it feels like if I had suddenly become 10 years older. My luck is that I started to hit the gym last year, so I had a couple extra kgs to spare. Came in handy when I could only eat pudding for 3 weeks!

Glad to hear you're OK as well!
gwb72tii
Posts: 640
Joined: Sep 21, 2021 4:58 PM
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest

Re: szacsi72's E28 535i build thread - "The Reddie"

Post by gwb72tii »

I’d like to see some pics of your exhaust system once it’s in place.
szacsi72
Posts: 223
Joined: Nov 13, 2022 3:41 AM
Location: Hungary

Re: szacsi72's E28 535i build thread - "The Reddie"

Post by szacsi72 »

gwb72tii wrote: Mar 20, 2024 11:09 PM I’d like to see some pics of your exhaust system once it’s in place.
Sure! Will post!

I'm planning on running the following:
Schmiedmann headers (42mm OD) into 2x50mm, x-pipe, two small flex pipes, a long middle resonator and a reasonably big rear muffler. It will be similar to a supersprint; but since I have the tools (and skills?) to make it myself, I'll happily save a good 1500Euros on a set of pipes :D
gwb72tii
Posts: 640
Joined: Sep 21, 2021 4:58 PM
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest

Re: szacsi72's E28 535i build thread - "The Reddie"

Post by gwb72tii »

Cool, thanks.I have a full Supersprint to install and I am somewhat anxious about the mounting pieces that will need to be fabricated and welded, but it should be similar to yours.
I was looking at the same header as yours too so I'm curious to what it all looks like when installed. Good looking header.
szacsi72
Posts: 223
Joined: Nov 13, 2022 3:41 AM
Location: Hungary

Re: szacsi72's E28 535i build thread - "The Reddie"

Post by szacsi72 »

I have a LOT of questions. A LOT.
I normally post them in the Tech Talk section, however, I don't want to spam the whole board...
So I collected them, and I'm posting them here, hoping that you guys actually read my build thread :laugh:

1. Can I use regular DIN931 bolts in the engine?
I think I've heard someone do this in an S38 for main bolts. Is 10.9 just 10.9? Or do you think that there would be a quality difference between OEM bolts and cheap regular 10.9s from the local hardware store?
For head bolts, I suspect this is a no-go, they are too long and they are thinner in the middle.

2. Would it make sense to get my flywheel and clutch combination balanced?
The flywheel is brand new, made from billet steel and has been balanced at the factory. The clutch is a new Sachs S38B36 clutch. Are these both balanced enough not to cause any trouble when combined? Or should I get them balanced together? Would it make a difference (smoother running?)

3. What do you guys think of running a smaller water pump pulley?
My current one (OEM on the B35) is 130mm, it's the smaller of the two M30 pulleys. But the S38 had 112 and 102mm versions. The water pump impeller is the same on the M30 and S38 water pumps, so I figured this could be a good upgrade for people who mostly use their cars on the street (for track users, the higher rpm would just create more drag and won't flow more after a point).

4. When it comes to a V-belt, which diameter counts when calculating the ratio?
Outer diameter? "Inner diameter" (OD - 2x belt depth)? Middle (OD - Belt depth (2x 0.5))?

5. Would I cook my R8 coils without a heat shield?

I can't use the stock exhaust gaskets and the new gaskets don't have the shield part. (I discussed this a bit more in a previous post)

6. Should I open up my exhaust ports?
The headers I bought are larger than the original ports on my M30. They are 41.5mm OD tubing that are 1.5mm thick, so 38.5mm ID.
The B35 ports have an area of 1081mm2, so its equivalent diameter is 37.099 ~37mm. I would need to open up the exhaust ports "roughly" 0.75mm all around. This sounds OK to me, I don't think the port velocities will get too low especially since I plan to push a lot more air trough. And even if it was a touch too big, I guess it's still better than having a lip? Let me know!

7. Is there a way to fix the oil filter housing's drain valve if it's bad (lets oil flow down?)
So far on most forums they just state that you should replace it (but another used unit can also malfunction..)

8. Can you recommend me a MATERIAL for heat shielding my underbody tunnel?
Not an exact product - I will probably have problem finding it in my country. I'm just looking for materials that adhere well enough and are heat resistant enough to be used on the outside... Transmission tunnel's right side, where the exhaust is.

9. Which clutch cylinder should I use?
My transmission came from an E34 and I've reused the cylinder on it, but I just realised it is 22.2mm instead of the E28's 20.64mm. It did not cause any troubles, but I guess I should swap to one from an E28? That would result in the engagement point being higher, and the clutch pedal being heavier? The clutch master is 19.05mm on both the E28 and the E34...

10. Stainless or regular studs?
Since my headers are made from 304, I figured that using A2 grade exhaust studs instead of 8.8 could be a good idea, because I really don't want to end up with a rusting stainless part! Of course A2 and aluminium like to galvanically corrode, but I think it should be fine with Loctite 8150 anti seize?

Thank you for your answers!
I'm finally feeling better, and now that the build is rolling lot's of thing are popping around in my head...
Galahad
Posts: 507
Joined: Sep 06, 2016 9:08 PM
Location: Beverly/Worcester, MA
Contact:

Re: szacsi72's E28 535i build thread - "The Reddie"

Post by Galahad »

1: I think 10.9 is 10.9. Head bolts are specifically TTY so they aren't going to be the same as the hardware store ones (if you can even find them in the right length)

2: I threw a new billet flywheel and clutch at two cars without balancing them together and didn't have any noticeable problems

3: overheating is bad, water flow is good

9: I'd match the master and slave sizes, I think I mismatched mine and the engagement is really high (but I also have the 323i tall throwout bearing). E34 master cylinders are too long for the E28 pedal box, at least the 525i one I used
Panici
Posts: 220
Joined: Aug 07, 2014 2:04 AM
Location: Canada

Re: szacsi72's E28 535i build thread - "The Reddie"

Post by Panici »

6. Should I open up my exhaust ports?


8. Can you recommend me a MATERIAL for heat shielding my underbody tunnel?
Not an exact product - I will probably have problem finding it in my country. I'm just looking for materials that adhere well enough and are heat resistant enough to be used on the outside... Transmission tunnel's right side, where the exhaust is.
6. From what I've read, port matching should be used on intake side only on a street engine. Don't open up your exhaust ports.
You actually do want a "step" between port and runner, something to do with exhaust scavenging and reflection IIRC.
Do some reading on this and decide for yourself.

8. You want a "metal" reflective product, rather then an asphalt or butyl-based product used for interior sound/heat.
Something like DEI Reflect-A-Cool or DEI Reflect-A-Gold does the trick.

Here is my E30's engine bay using both of those products. Then I have Hushmat for sound & heat rejection inside the car.

Image

Image
szacsi72
Posts: 223
Joined: Nov 13, 2022 3:41 AM
Location: Hungary

Re: szacsi72's E28 535i build thread - "The Reddie"

Post by szacsi72 »

Galahad wrote: Mar 27, 2024 12:37 AM 9: I'd match the master and slave sizes, I think I mismatched mine and the engagement is really high (but I also have the 323i tall throwout bearing). E34 master cylinders are too long for the E28 pedal box, at least the 525i one I used
The master is actually the same diameter of 19.05mm for the E28 and E34 both, only the slave is larger for the E34. However, I am not sure if their lengths are different... They mount up to the same transmission, so I suspect they are the same. In that case I guess I can choose between lower engagement and softer pedal vs higher engagement and stiffer pedal. I wonder if anyone has tried both?

I tried to find some information but no data on their lengths. Visually judging, they are the same, at least they are not marginally different. The only difference seems to be their diameter.

Panici wrote: Mar 27, 2024 6:57 AM 6. From what I've read, port matching should be used on intake side only on a street engine. Don't open up your exhaust ports.
You actually do want a "step" between port and runner, something to do with exhaust scavenging and reflection IIRC.
Do some reading on this and decide for yourself.
I've seen a lip used on the bottom/floor side on earlier race cars for anti reversal, but they were using race cams and carbs; but never on the roofing. I'll try to read into it a bit more.

Panici wrote: Mar 27, 2024 6:57 AM 8. You want a "metal" reflective product, rather then an asphalt or butyl-based product used for interior sound/heat.
Something like DEI Reflect-A-Cool or DEI Reflect-A-Gold does the trick.

Here is my E30's engine bay using both of those products. Then I have Hushmat for sound & heat rejection inside the car.
There's a company who sells reflect-a-cool and others, but it's pretty expensive. 30x30cm goes for roughly 20 bucks. Instead I've found this product, it's also made by DEI:
https://race-shop.hu/ontapado-hoszigete ... x60cm.html

Looks like it's a cheaper, lower quality product. I think this would be fine, it's not a turbo car, I just want to add some isulation because the tunnel does get really hot in the summer.
Does this product stick OK to underbody coatings? Or do I need to adhere it to paint?

I will also add sound and heat insulation and deadening from the inside too.
szacsi72
Posts: 223
Joined: Nov 13, 2022 3:41 AM
Location: Hungary

Re: szacsi72's 1984 Zinnoberrot 535i Build

Post by szacsi72 »

To my 10th question:
I just remember that I need to heli coil basically ALL exhaust mount threads, as someone before me used bolts instead of studs and managed to rip out the first 5-6mm in EVERY hole. Since helicoils are stainless anways...
Galahad
Posts: 507
Joined: Sep 06, 2016 9:08 PM
Location: Beverly/Worcester, MA
Contact:

Re: szacsi72's 1984 Zinnoberrot 535i Build

Post by Galahad »

On 8: I've used aluminum HVAC tape for reflecting exhaust heat, it sticks quite well to the underbody coating on my 528e. Similar to Panici's gold tape

10: I'd be worried about corrosion, that's messed things up for me (not on a car) in the past. May be fine if you make sure water can't get in
jdb
Posts: 142
Joined: Jan 01, 2007 6:56 PM
Location: Humboldt County, Ca.

Re: szacsi72's 1984 Zinnoberrot 535i Build

Post by jdb »

I will share my opinion, but it is just that.
Don't try to get fancy with hardware like main or head bolts for a street engine,
what BMW used works without fail as long as you clean and lightly oil threads. Clean headbolt holes with a tap, then verify that bolt threads with ease!!
Stainless hardware is a bit tricky. It has no hardness value (like 8.8/10.9/12.9) stainless has its place but be careful. Don't use it in a Helicoil.
Stock black exhaust studs with copper lock nuts are very effective.
Time sert makes a good thread repair that in my opinion might work for all 12 exhaust holes, lock better, install easier to get 12 quality results.

M88/S38 waterpumps are different, A correct M pump has fewer fingers on the impeller. It is a very different system actually from the radiator to the cylinder head and water passages. I would, and do, use quality correct cooling system parts on my High Performance BMW engines and if I were to find an issue, (very hot climate or only track use high RPM) then would look at speeding up or slowing down the coolant possibly.

There you have it, My opinion ...

Jeff
szacsi72
Posts: 223
Joined: Nov 13, 2022 3:41 AM
Location: Hungary

Re: szacsi72's 1984 Zinnoberrot 535i Build

Post by szacsi72 »

11: How shitty are 260/6-s to shift?

I have a really poor quality, overly short shifter in my car. When I shift, it takes time before the shifter pops into gear - I need to wait for the RPM to drop. I started to wonder, is this normal with a short shifter, or maybe that larger E34 master cylinder is causing my clutch to not fully disengage?
No grinding or anything, goes into first OK at a stop.. Just takes time to shift.

My 260/5 I had before was similar, the difference being, that that one would grind when cold.

Thanks
Last edited by szacsi72 on Apr 05, 2024 4:24 PM, edited 1 time in total.
szacsi72
Posts: 223
Joined: Nov 13, 2022 3:41 AM
Location: Hungary

Re: szacsi72's 1984 Zinnoberrot 535i Build

Post by szacsi72 »

szacsi72 wrote: Apr 03, 2024 7:54 AM How shitty are 260/6-s to shift?

I have a really poor quality, overly short shifter in my car. When I shift, it takes time before the shifter pops into gear - I need to wait for the RPM to drop. I started to wonder, is this normal with a short shifter, or maybe that larger E34 master cylinder is causing my clutch to not fully disengage?
No grinding or anything, goes into first OK at a stop.. Just takes time to shift.

My 260/5 I had before was similar, the difference being, that that one would grind when cold.

Thanks
Just to highlight: I swapped a 260/6 from an E34 into my E28. I'm not sure if the clutch slave is transmission specific, or chassis specific..

Thanks
vinceg101
Posts: 4812
Joined: Jun 20, 2007 2:40 AM
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: szacsi72's E28 535i build thread - "The Reddie"

Post by vinceg101 »

szacsi72 wrote: Mar 27, 2024 8:03 AM
Panici wrote: Mar 27, 2024 6:57 AM 8. You want a "metal" reflective product, rather then an asphalt or butyl-based product used for interior sound/heat.
Something like DEI Reflect-A-Cool or DEI Reflect-A-Gold does the trick.

Here is my E30's engine bay using both of those products. Then I have Hushmat for sound & heat rejection inside the car.
There's a company who sells reflect-a-cool and others, but it's pretty expensive. 30x30cm goes for roughly 20 bucks. Instead I've found this product, it's also made by DEI:
https://race-shop.hu/ontapado-hoszigete ... x60cm.html

Looks like it's a cheaper, lower quality product. I think this would be fine, it's not a turbo car, I just want to add some isulation because the tunnel does get really hot in the summer.
Does this product stick OK to underbody coatings? Or do I need to adhere it to paint?

I will also add sound and heat insulation and deadening from the inside too.
It will matter just how close to OEM you want to get. Panici's gold reflective material may be extremely effective but isn't really spec. For mine I wanted/needed to match the original as much as possible and chose to install the reflective material in the original configuration (mostly on the passenger side) but I did take some liberties for performance reasons.
I chose a similar material that the Reflect-A-Cool (Cool-It Thermo Tec); it was self-adhering but I added some aggressive high-temp spray adhesive to ensure long-term adhesion.
You can read my write-up here on page 2 of my build thread: https://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?f=7 ... 5&start=25

I applied layers of other thermal and acoustic layers to the interior when I did the interior remodel later in that build thread. It all makes a difference; how much? It's hard to tell.
CanadianMiniFan
Posts: 129
Joined: Oct 16, 2011 6:31 PM

Re: szacsi72's 1984 Zinnoberrot 535i Build

Post by CanadianMiniFan »

szacsi72 wrote: Apr 03, 2024 7:54 AM How shitty are 260/6-s to shift?

I have a really poor quality, overly short shifter in my car. When I shift, it takes time before the shifter pops into gear - I need to wait for the RPM to drop. I started to wonder, is this normal with a short shifter, or maybe that larger E34 master cylinder is causing my clutch to not fully disengage?
No grinding or anything, goes into first OK at a stop.. Just takes time to shift.

My 260/5 I had before was similar, the difference being, that that one would grind when cold.

Thanks
I have a 260/6 in my e28, granted it’s likely an e28 trans as it has the holes for the bellhousing sensors, I realize it could have been drilled and tapped, but likely an e28 trans. I would not classify it as a shitty shift at all, it had an unknown short shifter in it as well. I would try a different shifter set up before condemning your trans. What oil is in it?
Panici
Posts: 220
Joined: Aug 07, 2014 2:04 AM
Location: Canada

Re: szacsi72's E28 535i build thread - "The Reddie"

Post by Panici »

szacsi72 wrote: Mar 27, 2024 8:03 AM Does this product stick OK to underbody coatings? Or do I need to adhere it to paint?
Mine stuck decently well. If I recall correctly I degreased and cleaned the surface first, but didn't do any other prep.
szacsi72
Posts: 223
Joined: Nov 13, 2022 3:41 AM
Location: Hungary

Re: szacsi72's E28 535i build thread - "The Reddie"

Post by szacsi72 »

vinceg101 wrote: Apr 03, 2024 4:31 PM
szacsi72 wrote: Mar 27, 2024 8:03 AM There's a company who sells reflect-a-cool and others, but it's pretty expensive. 30x30cm goes for roughly 20 bucks. Instead I've found this product, it's also made by DEI:
https://race-shop.hu/ontapado-hoszigete ... x60cm.html

Looks like it's a cheaper, lower quality product. I think this would be fine, it's not a turbo car, I just want to add some isulation because the tunnel does get really hot in the summer.
Does this product stick OK to underbody coatings? Or do I need to adhere it to paint?

I will also add sound and heat insulation and deadening from the inside too.
It will matter just how close to OEM you want to get. Panici's gold reflective material may be extremely effective but isn't really spec. For mine I wanted/needed to match the original as much as possible and chose to install the reflective material in the original configuration (mostly on the passenger side) but I did take some liberties for performance reasons.
I chose a similar material that the Reflect-A-Cool (Cool-It Thermo Tec); it was self-adhering but I added some aggressive high-temp spray adhesive to ensure long-term adhesion.
You can read my write-up here on page 2 of my build thread: https://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?f=7 ... 5&start=25

I applied layers of other thermal and acoustic layers to the interior when I did the interior remodel later in that build thread. It all makes a difference; how much? It's hard to tell.
I'm not super keen on originality, but I don't want it to look out of place. So I'll stick to silver ones
CanadianMiniFan wrote: Apr 04, 2024 11:43 AM
szacsi72 wrote: Apr 03, 2024 7:54 AM How shitty are 260/6-s to shift?

I have a really poor quality, overly short shifter in my car. When I shift, it takes time before the shifter pops into gear - I need to wait for the RPM to drop. I started to wonder, is this normal with a short shifter, or maybe that larger E34 master cylinder is causing my clutch to not fully disengage?
No grinding or anything, goes into first OK at a stop.. Just takes time to shift.

My 260/5 I had before was similar, the difference being, that that one would grind when cold.

Thanks
I have a 260/6 in my e28, granted it’s likely an e28 trans as it has the holes for the bellhousing sensors, I realize it could have been drilled and tapped, but likely an e28 trans. I would not classify it as a shitty shift at all, it had an unknown short shifter in it as well. I would try a different shifter set up before condemning your trans. What oil is in it?
I believe ATF. Since it's an E34, those were filled with ATF. I'm considering going for a mix of 80w and ATF but I'm not sure. Some say go for Redline, some say go for ATF...
Panici wrote: Apr 04, 2024 11:46 AM
szacsi72 wrote: Mar 27, 2024 8:03 AM Does this product stick OK to underbody coatings? Or do I need to adhere it to paint?
Mine stuck decently well. If I recall correctly I degreased and cleaned the surface first, but didn't do any other prep.
Thanks, good news!
szacsi72
Posts: 223
Joined: Nov 13, 2022 3:41 AM
Location: Hungary

Re: szacsi72's 1984 Zinnoberrot 535i Build

Post by szacsi72 »

I had some free time and since I couldn't do anything with the engine, or the engine bay (waiting for parts and tools), I played around in the interior.

Previous owner left me a surprise :roll:
Image
Image
Image

For the love of god. I understand that the shelf had to be cut for the big 6x9's to install but WHY THERE??
I was debating of making 6x9 to 6.5" round adapter plates but I think that having the speakers so far away from the sides would look awful, + doesn't help with the stereo sound either.
So now I have to somehow fill in these holes, before making new ones.... sigh

Welding is not an option right now, I would have to remove too many parts. I'm thinking of laser cutting a 1mm steel plate, and riveting it into place with some silicone glue to make it airtight. I will then cover the whole shelf with sound deadening so it won't look too awful, but I will have to come back to this later and fix it, because I will know it's there...

Took some measurements for the adapter plates.
Here are the 100mm Audison AP4s next to the original 6x4s:
Image

And fitted the read seatbelts in the rear:
Image
They will look much better once the red-stitched, semi-leather, m-rain interior is installed. It feels a bit ouf of place as of now.


Question #12: could you recommend me thicknesses for the sound deadening? Bitumen/butyl (the one that is for reducing vibrations)
I'm trying to place it strategically: thinner where it matters less/isn't that bad and thicker where it matters more.
I was thinking of:
4mm: around the front speakers, and the rear shelf
2mm: most of the underbody, tunnel, and the doors
1.5mm: trunk, and the part behind the rear seats (but not the shelf)
I probably won't do the roof as I've heard removing the headliner is a PITA.

Thanks!
Post Reply