Another reason I came back to the e28, an e39 story

General conversations about BMW E28s and the people who own them.
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turbodan
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Another reason I came back to the e28, an e39 story

Post by turbodan »

The sister in law has been driving my old e39 for a few years. I bought the car in 2008 or 2009 and replaced the engine and a whole bunch of other stuff. It was a great car for me but began to fall apart like a dead bug as soon as I sold it. The latest pain in my ass problem was brake lights. On, all the time. This is usually the brake light switch. Ordered up a replacement, an aftermarket brand I have used in the past. Upon installation, the problem remained.

About a week later, with the car now in my possession I began dicking around with it. My OBD2 plug in tool showed the brake light switch both on and off at the same time. The test switch showed "off" but the light switch showed "on". I observed the brake lights actually flickering on and off but mostly on. Sometimes they would just start working normally before going back to the wacky shit again. I began to doubt my aftermarket brake light switch, so I took a nice drive to the local u-pull it. Grabbed two switches, surely one of these is going to be good. Of course the problem continued.

Next on my list was the light control module. Back to the u-pull it, found one in a 530i that I hoped would be close enough. This time I took the bike, its a good 20 mile trip each way so I'm hoping to save some money on gas. Surprising no one, the new module didn't fix it either. I'm getting ready to punt this thing and tell her to take it to a shop. I'm also wondering why BMW felt it necessary to complicate such a simple circuit to this extent. You couldn't have this problem with an e28. You could easily test the brake switch for one. These little magnetic bastards are complicated and I found nothing about how they are supposed to operate and how to test them on the bench. I'm also wondering where my OBD2 tool is getting it's data stream from. The DME is involved with the brake light circuit, to what extent I'm not sure. I do know I am running out of parts to throw at this thing.

Last thing I thought to check is the ignition switch. I had forgotten that the radio was inop, that shoe dropped like a year and a half ago and I suspected the switch then but being a minor issue it was never addressed. Since then, the steering column had begun acting strangely and adjusting itself for no apparent reason. The OBC seemed to be inop as well, the stalk switch would not cycle through the displays. Being about eight hours into this project I figured why not pull it out and try cleaning the contacts. It didn't look bad, I expected some carbon accumulation from arcing or discoloration from heat but I found no sign of distress. I sanded the contacts anyway and put it back in. Somehow this resolved the brake light issue as well as the radio, steering column and OBC issues.

This is all very much on brand for this car specifically and not too far off of my experience with the e46 as well. When they are right they are a really great car. At this point in the e39 life cycle though I really don't know how many good years they have left in them.
wkohler
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Re: Another reason I came back to the e28, an e39 story

Post by wkohler »

Big E39 problem now is new parts are crap and whatever BMW has in stock, now that they're in the classic catalog, prices have gone up 20x.

Interesting idea on the ignition switch. I have a friend with a 525i that has similar issues. Sometimes nothing happens and some of the stuff I read was pointing that direction.
Mike W.
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Re: Another reason I came back to the e28, an e39 story

Post by Mike W. »

I wouldn't have guessed it, but I'm not surprised. In spite of having been in them a while now, always my wife's cars, I have but a fraction of the knowledge on them that I do on E28s, which were a natural progression from E3s and E12s. What's even wackier is the test for a bad ignition switch is to fold the sunvisor down. I forget what it's supposed to do, and it's not quite a gold standard test, but close.

All new cars are going this way of course, albeit with BMW perhaps leading the way. And never forget the engineers mantra, if it still works, it's not complicated enough yet.

All that said, I am on the lookout for a decent E39 530i/manual. They've gotten rare. I want the power, yes, I could build an M30 that might pass smog and put out 235HP, but not have the torque curve of a Vanos car or get the MPG of an E39. I want quiet, no way can I get E39 quiet out of an E28. And I can still fix E39s, at least I have so far and we're 15 years into them. I fear I might not be able to fix an E60. This also recalls a thread I started a while ago, how old does a car have to be to be reliable?
BMWCCA2
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Re: Another reason I came back to the e28, an e39 story

Post by BMWCCA2 »

My '71 2000 Euro sedan just left in the hands of another, headed to a better life perhaps as a vintage race car. I consider that the first "5-series". It was followed as our daily driver by an E12 528i 5-speed that left us many years ago, replaced by an E28 535i, then an E39 528i that is still here but so many errant electrical issues and finally a cracked windshield have side-lined it. Those were my wife's rides. Along the way I've had several 535is E28s and still have one and an '85 535i stick. But my favorite for years was my E34 1995 525i 5-speed which I have always thought worthy of restoration but they can rust as badly (if not worse) than an E28. So I bought the nicest E39 530i Sport/Premium 5-speed I could find in a year-long search, thinking that would be it for me until they bury me in it.

As nice as it is, it just doesn't do anything for me. It doesn't do anything bad but I prefer the E34 and the E28. The 530i is a year-2002 with heated seats, DSP Sound System, Sport/Premium so moonroof, 17-inch modular wheels, sport seats, and all the rest. I've put maybe 10,000 miles on it in the years I've owned it, including sever long trips—which seems to be its strong suit. But it has remained covered in the garage probably since two O'fests ago. I think it may have tripped 80k by now and just got new DWS-06s. I have been pondering its fate for some time and saw a Blue Water non-sunroof, non-Premium stick with 62k go for $22k on BaT and figured now may be the time. (Ugly must be in the eye of the beholder!) If you don't love it, let it go. My two daily-drivers are a 128i M-sport stick and the '85 535i but, truth be told, I could own nothing but the E82 and be happy as a clam even if I never finish any of my 2002 restorations—that little car is just that good. My wife's "new" E90 is up on stands right now in the driveway having just completed a transfer-case servo-motor replacement and now waiting for a prophylactic replacement of the electric water-pump and thermostat at 90k, which seems to be their Achilles heel. One of those "as-long-as-you're-in-there" repairs. It would be nice to have been able to work in the garage but I didn't want to disturb the E39 (black on black, so any time outside means a detail), and the other bay has a 1600 convertible up with no struts or wheels on it waiting for all new brake hydraulics. Too many projects.

But, back on topic, after two E39s I find them competent BMWs but with such a short time left in my life, they just don't excite me. I'll continue to drive the E82 and dream about restoring the E34 instead. My wife is currently enjoying being back in an E28 while I wait for parts for the E90. But the novelty will soon wear off.
Panici
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Re: Another reason I came back to the e28, an e39 story

Post by Panici »

BMWCCA2 wrote: Jul 26, 2022 8:04 AM ...with such a short time left in my life, they just don't excite me.
Think you hit the nail on the head.
Life is short, drive what makes you happy.
dsw99a
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Re: Another reason I came back to the e28, an e39 story

Post by dsw99a »

Hear,hear! :up:
gadget73
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Re: Another reason I came back to the e28, an e39 story

Post by gadget73 »

80s and early 90s Fords are known for ignition switch failures and it shows up as random problems like this. Its one of those deals where if you know to look for it, its 20 bucks and half an hour to deal with, or it will drive you absolutely nuts trying to figure out why things randomly work or don't depending on whatever it feels like doing at that particular moment.
vinceg101
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Re: Another reason I came back to the e28, an e39 story

Post by vinceg101 »

I've been daily driving my '02 530iA Sport (as much as you can call what I do 'daily') for about 10 years now and just around 80K miles. I got it when it was at about 130K and went through a phase of some minor/major maintenance issues any BMW would undergo at that stage in its' life, including some model/generation specific items; but since then has been pretty reliable (knock-wood). Not to jinx it, but so far I have not experienced the same issues as the OP.

I had been driving an E28 for the 12 years prior ('88 US 535i) for nearly 100K miles so the transition was startling for the first almost year. I switch between the E39 and the E28 M535i often and have to ponder on where BMW took the 5-Series in two generations and 15 years; both the good and the bad. I might have a different attitude if this car were a standard transmission, but for what I need out of this car at my stage in life, the Steptronic is a passable substitute.

While I find the car has its' strengths (as some have said it's a fantastic traveling car and is one of the quietest cars out there old or new) I have always said about the E39 that it is a car one doesn't initially love, but it grows on you. Sort of like an arranged marriage. I am still amazed that a car that is now over 20 years old (build date on mine 11/2001) is still as solid, comfortable and luxurious as most newer cars.

I hang on to cars for a very long time and wring everything out of them (financially and emotionally) I can get; but how long will I keep this E39? Don't know yet but I certainly won't be turning it in for a newer BMW any time soon.
Last edited by vinceg101 on Jul 27, 2022 2:06 PM, edited 3 times in total.
e12euro
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Re: Another reason I came back to the e28, an e39 story

Post by e12euro »

The youngest e39s are now reaching 20 years old. You are going to expect age related things to go wrong, plus as cars get more sophisticated there are more things to go wrong. If you don't have ABS, power windows or a Service Interval indicator system they can't fail right?

With that understood, e39s are very nice cars, and worth fixing. :cool:
SeattleGuy
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Re: Another reason I came back to the e28, an e39 story

Post by SeattleGuy »

I don't realistically see buying anything newer than an E36. They are still around in good nick, and relatively cheap.
jc72
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Re: Another reason I came back to the e28, an e39 story

Post by jc72 »

Mike W. wrote: Jul 25, 2022 12:39 AM I wouldn't have guessed it, but I'm not surprised. In spite of having been in them a while now, always my wife's cars, I have but a fraction of the knowledge on them that I do on E28s, which were a natural progression from E3s and E12s. What's even wackier is the test for a bad ignition switch is to fold the sunvisor down. I forget what it's supposed to do, and it's not quite a gold standard test, but close.

All new cars are going this way of course, albeit with BMW perhaps leading the way. And never forget the engineers mantra, if it still works, it's not complicated enough yet.

All that said, I am on the lookout for a decent E39 530i/manual. They've gotten rare. I want the power, yes, I could build an M30 that might pass smog and put out 235HP, but not have the torque curve of a Vanos car or get the MPG of an E39. I want quiet, no way can I get E39 quiet out of an E28. And I can still fix E39s, at least I have so far and we're 15 years into them. I fear I might not be able to fix an E60. This also recalls a thread I started a while ago, how old does a car have to be to be reliable?
Not affiliated but here’s a local manual 530i for you.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/7528677156.html
Mike W.
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Re: Another reason I came back to the e28, an e39 story

Post by Mike W. »

jc72 wrote: Sep 06, 2022 5:54 PM
Not affiliated but here’s a local manual 530i for you.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/7528677156.html
Thanks! Although I don't look as often as I need to, I had seen that one. Failing clearcoat among other things put me off.

For years Craigslist has been the go to place for used cars around here, but there's been next to nothing there lately. Am I missing something or are they just not for sale?
austin8753
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Re: Another reason I came back to the e28, an e39 story

Post by austin8753 »

Mike W. wrote: Jul 25, 2022 12:39 AM I wouldn't have guessed it, but I'm not surprised. In spite of having been in them a while now, always my wife's cars, I have but a fraction of the knowledge on them that I do on E28s, which were a natural progression from E3s and E12s. What's even wackier is the test for a bad ignition switch is to fold the sunvisor down. I forget what it's supposed to do, and it's not quite a gold standard test, but close.

All new cars are going this way of course, albeit with BMW perhaps leading the way. And never forget the engineers mantra, if it still works, it's not complicated enough yet.

All that said, I am on the lookout for a decent E39 530i/manual. They've gotten rare. I want the power, yes, I could build an M30 that might pass smog and put out 235HP, but not have the torque curve of a Vanos car or get the MPG of an E39. I want quiet, no way can I get E39 quiet out of an E28. And I can still fix E39s, at least I have so far and we're 15 years into them. I fear I might not be able to fix an E60. This also recalls a thread I started a while ago, how old does a car have to be to be reliable?
https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto ... 23218.html

not affiliated, seems on the higher end of price, but what do i know...
Mike W.
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Re: Another reason I came back to the e28, an e39 story

Post by Mike W. »

austin8753 wrote: Sep 07, 2022 1:03 AM
https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto ... 23218.html

not affiliated, seems on the higher end of price, but what do i know...
Looks nicely optioned, but double the going price with 200K on it. Maybe I have to start expanding my range though?
douglasM5
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Re: Another reason I came back to the e28, an e39 story

Post by douglasM5 »

As @Mike W said, "And I can still fix E39s, at least I have so far and we're 15 years into them."

I have two e39 M5s. One with 188k miles. I tracked the high mileage one often until health and now work demand issues have sidelined me for most of the last two years. But I still regularly drive it. I find them pretty easy to fix and maintenance costs haven't been what I feared from an M car although yes, the parts prices have recently become robbery and the quality questionable.

My e28 M5 should be back on the road soon after I put it in storage more than 25 years ago and I am very excited to be driving it again.

There is something to be said for owning cars that you can fix yourself. And ones that make you smile just by driving them. For me, the e28 and the e39 are exactly those cars.
richardb
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Re: Another reason I came back to the e28, an e39 story

Post by richardb »

IMO the e39 is one of the best cars produced by BMW. I've owned many variants of the e39 and still own an e28. From 2014-2018 the prices on e39 parts were dirt cheap compared to most other models. My e90 335i parts were 3X or more that of the e39. So I sold it.

However, late 2019 and to date the e39 parts prices have climbed quite a bit. Still one of the most enjoyable models and one you can certainly DIY due to no shortage of info online. My current daily is a Mercedes S500 W140 I had a curiosity for, and while excellent for my current needs, there is so little information online and lack of a knowledgeable community. That's where BMW ownership wins for those who DIY.

You may have seen some of my videos online, here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd0Gln ... 0ap6uzX7yA

For as long as I'll have to drive gasoline powered cars, I don't think I'll buy any BMW newer than the e39.
Panici
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Re: Another reason I came back to the e28, an e39 story

Post by Panici »

Thoughts on the V8 in the E39 540i?
I have two M52 powered cars now and would like some variety.

I was bidding on a local example as the current price was to-good-to-be-true at $2-3k cad. Auction ended up going over 3k and still didn't hit the guy's reserve price. Doesn't matter that it got away as the car was Automatic (and I loathe driving something without a user-operated clutch.)

Anyway this listing put the E39 on my radar. The interior looked like quite the nice place to be in the photos, and I don't really have a dedicated highway cruiser at the moment. I have always wanted a black-on-black BMW and the E39 certainly looks the part.

I'm not rushing out to get one, but I think I will keep apprised of the local E39 market now.
Mike W.
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Re: Another reason I came back to the e28, an e39 story

Post by Mike W. »

Panici wrote: Oct 25, 2022 2:01 PM Thoughts on the V8 in the E39 540i?
I have two M52 powered cars now and would like some variety.
The timing chain and related is the achilles heel on E39 V8s. At somewhere around 180-200K it needs replacement or else it can grenade the engine. A thou or better in parts if you do the work, or several thou if you have it done. Many just replace the engine with a low mileage one, but as they age there's less and less of them. A/Ts are always a crapshoot, but name me a brand that isn't.
Panici
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Re: Another reason I came back to the e28, an e39 story

Post by Panici »

Mike W. wrote: Oct 25, 2022 8:30 PM The timing chain and related is the achilles heel on E39 V8s. At somewhere around 180-200K it needs replacement or else it can grenade the engine. A thou or better in parts if you do the work, or several thou if you have it done. Many just replace the engine with a low mileage one, but as they age there's less and less of them. A/Ts are always a crapshoot, but name me a brand that isn't.
I would tackle the job myself, but that is still a significant cost for parts.
Not considering A/T cars as I looked into manual swapping and it isn't worth the money to do.
vinceg101
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Re: Another reason I came back to the e28, an e39 story

Post by vinceg101 »

One thing to keep in mind is that parts availability for the E39 is getting just as bad as for older models with many parts being NLA now.
Some of the electronic parts are outrageously expensive and the factory Sport Suspension in either the V8 or I6 models is crazy expensive to replace and very involved. The rear subframe assembly in an E39 is nuts.

The interiors seem to suffer a bit worse than E28's depending on how well it was cared for (as usual). I noticed that all the sudden my headliner material on the A and C Pillars is failing in various locations.
Justin_FL
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Re: Another reason I came back to the e28, an e39 story

Post by Justin_FL »

vinceg101 wrote: Oct 26, 2022 8:51 PMfactory Sport Suspension in either the V8 or I6 models is crazy expensive to replace and very involved. The rear subframe assembly in an E39 is nuts.
Not sure I'd bother with the factory dampers if aftermarket support is still there. The front sport struts felt tired by 70-80k miles on my 530i. But to be honest, if I hadn't driven low mileage cars during the shopping process it would be hard to tell things weren't up to spec. I picked up a Dinan suspension kit when they clearanced them out in 2009 or so and installed around 105-110k miles. The car rides better over rough roads and the handling was better too. I purchased their larger rear sway bar too, since the factory sport bar was the same size as their stage 2 package (never got around to installing it though, lol).

I can't say what effect the Dinan springs have on everything (they are slightly lower than factory sport springs), but I bet the Koni adjustables are the source of most of the improvements in ride quality. They are the yellow Koni Sports and I'd definitely recommend them.

The E39s are nice but as you say parts supply is disappearing. It may be less practical to keep as a daily driver. I was thinking about parting mine out. 3 years ago I hooked the front bumper on a parking stop and damaged the bumper and $1200 worth of all the stupid undertray and fender liner plastics that you can only get from BMW. Bought all that stuff, but since the new bumper skin must be painted and some of the car isn't far off from needing a respray in places, financially it doesn't make sense to do a full repaint so I just kept it parked in the garage. Now from sitting the brake electrics or some parts have stopped working and there seems there is a driveshaft vibration. And then a window regulator broke. Other than needing that stuff, new tires, battery, and an optional full repaint it's a clean 125k mile car with a perfect black interior. In the last year or two, nice E39 530i manual sports have jumped in value, so maybe it's worth tidying up... but I must confess to being very interested in yanking the engine and trans to swap into my 528e. :cool:
vinceg101
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Re: Another reason I came back to the e28, an e39 story

Post by vinceg101 »

Justin_FL wrote: Oct 27, 2022 8:18 AMThe E39s are nice but as you say parts supply is disappearing. It may be less practical to keep as a daily driver. I was thinking about parting mine out. 3 years ago I hooked the front bumper on a parking stop and damaged the bumper and $1200 worth of all the stupid undertray and fender liner plastics that you can only get from BMW. Bought all that stuff, but since the new bumper skin must be painted and some of the car isn't far off from needing a respray in places, financially it doesn't make sense to do a full repaint so I just kept it parked in the garage. Now from sitting the brake electrics or some parts have stopped working and there seems there is a driveshaft vibration. And then a window regulator broke.
I would imagine you wouldn't have felt much difference in your suspension with that few miles. I replaced mine at +/-16 years old and over 180K miles and the difference was night and day. I was shredding rear tires and not from hooning.

Don't get me started about the E39 Sport Suspension and tire stops :roll:
I did the same thing one too many times and finally cracked the front bumper cover. Looked into buying a new one and found it cheap but shipping across the country was insane. Sourced a fairly good one from a yard, had a body guy paint it and transfer all the bits and bobs over and I was happy. Until I hooked it again not a week after I got the car back :facepalm:

I lost the clear on the roof, got rear ended last year and the clear was starting to go on the trunk so I ended up having half the car re-shot. But now the clear is starting to peel on the edges of rear quarters at the trunk lip. So this is losing battle. But at 21 years and 218K on the original Steptronic I've sort of been waiting for that shoe to drop.

It's a shame since the car is overall in really great condition, however it's just probably not worth dumping a whole lot more money into as a daily.
turbodan
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Re: Another reason I came back to the e28, an e39 story

Post by turbodan »

Panici wrote: Oct 25, 2022 2:01 PM Thoughts on the V8 in the E39 540i?
I have two M52 powered cars now and would like some variety.

I was bidding on a local example as the current price was to-good-to-be-true at $2-3k cad. Auction ended up going over 3k and still didn't hit the guy's reserve price. Doesn't matter that it got away as the car was Automatic (and I loathe driving something without a user-operated clutch.)

Anyway this listing put the E39 on my radar. The interior looked like quite the nice place to be in the photos, and I don't really have a dedicated highway cruiser at the moment. I have always wanted a black-on-black BMW and the E39 certainly looks the part.

I'm not rushing out to get one, but I think I will keep apprised of the local E39 market now.
The M62 is a fine engine when it is current on maintenance. When the time comes, you're looking at coolant and oil leaks requiring major engine disassembly to remedy. Air leaks are common around the same time due to hardened intake manifold gaskets.

Buying a used one will likely require the full cooling system replacement, valley pan gasket, intake gaskets, crank vent valve, valve cover gaskets and potentially the rear cross over cover gasket as well. That one requires transmission removal to replace, so figure a rear main seal while you're in there.

The M62TU with VANOS is the one that is most prone to timing component failures. The early 4.4 without VANOS has been pretty solid for me in that regard. The TU also has a water cooled alternator which makes replacement unnecessarily expensive.

I liked the V8 performance but I didn't like owning and working on them. Would much rather add forced induction to an inline six to make all the power I need.
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