Front speaker replacement question

General conversations about BMW E28s and the people who own them.
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Mdreamer
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Front speaker replacement question

Post by Mdreamer »

All,

I have read through the threads about people's audio set-ups and it has thoroughly confused me. :laugh: I've been trying to determine what the best options are for the 4x6 components in the front that DO NOT requiring modifying the original housings. Audiophiles, please advise!
Blue Shadow
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Re: Front speaker replacement question

Post by Blue Shadow »

a 4x6 2-way speaker is the best you can do for that space.

Call crutchfield and ask em what is the best sounding model
vinceg101
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Re: Front speaker replacement question

Post by vinceg101 »

The other option is a 4" round lower (bass) with a separate 3/4" or 1" upper (tweeter) if you install crossovers into the system. This follows the BMW Premium (I still laugh at that name) configuration. The BMW upper tweeter pods can be modified to fit newer or different tweeters for other manufacturers and are easily installed on the doors. This provides a better sound distribution than having all that front sound at your feet.
The best location for the crossovers is under the rear seat.
Mdreamer
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Re: Front speaker replacement question

Post by Mdreamer »

Thank you both for your feedback (pun intended)!

I have purchased a set of tweeter housings that were originally in a 535is. Is it feasible to use a 2 way 4x6 and a separate tweeter (without a crossover)? I am not bonded to this idea, but I am really looking to have a simple set-up. Again, thank you very much!
BMWCCA2
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Re: Front speaker replacement question

Post by BMWCCA2 »

Blue Shadow wrote: Jun 08, 2022 9:53 AM a 4x6 2-way speaker is the best you can do for that space.

Call crutchfield and ask em what is the best sounding model
Last time I looked, they showed nothing that would fit an E28. I previously purchased the Polk MOMOs from them and found they fit the front perfectly if you installed them with the tweeters down (IIRC). I recently bought some JBLs from them for my '85 535i but haven't found time to mess with them yet. Mostly the problems are clearance for the domes using the stock speaker grilles.
Mdreamer
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Re: Front speaker replacement question

Post by Mdreamer »

[/quote]
Last time I looked, they showed nothing that would fit an E28. I previously purchased the Polk MOMOs from them and found they fit the front perfectly if you installed them with the tweeters down (IIRC). I recently bought some JBLs from them for my '85 535i but haven't found time to mess with them yet. Mostly the problems are clearance for the domes using the stock speaker grilles.
[/quote]

Thank you very much for chiming in. ;)
vinceg101
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Re: Front speaker replacement question

Post by vinceg101 »

Mdreamer wrote: Jun 08, 2022 11:53 PM Thank you both for your feedback (pun intended)!

I have purchased a set of tweeter housings that were originally in a 535is. Is it feasible to use a 2 way 4x6 and a separate tweeter (without a crossover)? I am not bonded to this idea, but I am really looking to have a simple set-up. Again, thank you very much!
Simple answer is no: you need to split the front signals into their respective components and crossovers are the only way to do that. BMW sort of worked around that with their Premium amps but their wiring methods were opposite standard conventions. If you want to keep it simple then stick with the 2-way 4" round or 4"x6" lowers.

You haven't said what head unit you're going to use since this may give you the direction of what you can and cannot do with signal distribution.
Also, please tell me you're installing new 14ga speaker wire to all speakers...
Blue Shadow
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Re: Front speaker replacement question

Post by Blue Shadow »

Without premium stereo standard, the tweeters on the mirror mounts can take some time to get the wires addressed. In my 85, I installed the ADS 320i speakers up front, crossovers in the glove box. Wiring to the tweeters jumped from the dash to the door for the first 5 years and then when I had the wild hair to run the wire into the door at the electrical conduit, it took 8 hours to run the two wires, on each side.

I never got the tweeter mounts so mine are flush mounted right now. I could put an angled mount behind them like I have on the VDO oil temp and oil pressure gauges in the ashtray replacement module but I'm not in a hurry. I guess I'm keeping my car long term.

The use of a 4" or so woofer in the kick panel and a tweeter on the mirror mount is the way to go. If you have premium sound the wiring in the car is not easy to figure out to be able to install a normal system. It took me some time to figure out Chip's car for that system.
Blue Shadow
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Re: Front speaker replacement question

Post by Blue Shadow »

BMWCCA2 wrote: Jun 09, 2022 9:11 AM I previously purchased the Polk MOMOs
These were the go to speakers back when they were available and the cars were getting the stereo upgraded.
joema
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Re: Front speaker replacement question

Post by joema »

Mdreamer wrote: Jun 08, 2022 11:53 PM Thank you both for your feedback (pun intended)!

I have purchased a set of tweeter housings that were originally in a 535is. Is it feasible to use a 2 way 4x6 and a separate tweeter (without a crossover)? I am not bonded to this idea, but I am really looking to have a simple set-up. Again, thank you very much!
You can run a 4x6 coaxial in the well and a tweeter in the sail. Theoretically, using a crossover, the high frequencies to the 4x6 coaxial should be blocked and the highs would only go to the tweeter on the sail. I’ve done this and it sounds only ok.

If you’re using an amp with enough channels, you could run the speakers in the well separately from the tweeters without use of an external crossover, but your speaker setup would get much more complicated. You’d need the four-channel amp to drive your two front tweeters and two speakers in the well. That amp would need to be optioned with a high/low pass filter so you can send the right frequencies to the tweeters. Then you’d need another amp to power your rear speakers. A third amp would be necessary for a subwoofer, or the sub would need to be self-powered, if you want low frequencies. This setup is getting closer to what the advanced car audiophiles do, and probably not what you’re interested in given you want something simple.

The better setup would be a true component speaker set with the dedicated tweeter for the highs in the sail and the mids going to the speaker in the well. I’ve since opted for CDT Audio CL-42 components, with a four inch round in the well and a one inch tweeter in the sail with a passive crossover. It was pricey, but there are unfortunately not a lot of options for a four inch component setup unless you’re willing to pay a premium.

I think you’re best bet is a 4x6 (coaxial or not) or a four inch round with an external crossover for the tweeter in the sail. External crossovers are about 20 bucks. If you find the speaker well is too shallow for the 4x6 or 4 inch round you end up using, the non-premium speaker risers for the rear shelf can act as a spacer and fit the stock grills. I’ve done this, only having to trim the riser on the driver side to make sure the hood latch would clear the speaker.
Mdreamer
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Re: Front speaker replacement question

Post by Mdreamer »

All of you are amazing in the sense that you've answered my questions in a manner that is simple enough for me to understand. Thank you!
Karl Grau
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Re: Front speaker replacement question

Post by Karl Grau »

vinceg101
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Re: Front speaker replacement question

Post by vinceg101 »

^^^ Wow, I forgot about that thread. You still have this setup?
Karl Grau
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Re: Front speaker replacement question

Post by Karl Grau »

vinceg101 wrote: Jun 10, 2022 5:22 PM ^^^ Wow, I forgot about that thread. You still have this setup?
Yes, but I never hooked up the subwoofers under the seats and now I don't remember why. :rofl:
The M5 will be going up for sale sometime before I retire in the next six months.




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garageboy
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Re: Front speaker replacement question

Post by garageboy »

Nice Style 42s on the E39 too!
gwb72tii
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Re: Front speaker replacement question

Post by gwb72tii »

Yes to crossovers, tweeters up high in the sail shaped cover, one 5 channel amp (not separate amps for rear, forward and sub) etc. You're not going to be able to hear the difference between stock BMW speaker wires and 14ga expensive wires. No need to re-wire the car where its not necessary.

The thing that will make the biggest difference is not what expensive brand of speakers you buy (most of them aren't all that special), it is tuning your amp. You can get by with stock BMW speakers and a tuned amp will make a huge sonic difference.

This is from R3V on how to tune an amp:
https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/forum/ ... the-basics

and if you want to go one step further, read this, it has loads of good info on what to do to improve your stereo without spending unnecessary money:
https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/forum/ ... ds-of-pics

I followed all of the above for a stereo in my last e30 and I can tell you it was flat out high fidelity, crazy good.
Blue Shadow
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Re: Front speaker replacement question

Post by Blue Shadow »

gwb72tii wrote: Jun 13, 2022 11:05 AM You can get by with stock BMW speakers and a tuned amp will make a huge sonic difference.
(links to system tuning removed, see em above)
I followed all of the above for a stereo in my last e30 and I can tell you it was flat out high fidelity, crazy good.
Heck I just threw in a whole new set of gear. HU Concord sounded better than the replacement Alpine but the Alpine works. A couple pair of ADS, plates in back separates up front, couple subs in appropriate volumes firing through the back firewall and a couple a/d/s/ amps, one for the subs and one for the ADS speakers. Tuning was changing the crossover resistor array for proper sub to high end sound. Done. Sounds pretty good. Used it for my 'listening' system when the home rig wasn't what it is today.

But with the work I have done tuning the main rig, I believe tuning my ride rig would make a difference but I'm happy with the sound as it is.
Watut
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Re: Front speaker replacement question

Post by Watut »

ive got a set of boston 4x6s out of my parts e28 if that interests you
Mdreamer
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Re: Front speaker replacement question

Post by Mdreamer »

Thank you, Karl, gwb, and Blue Shadow. I'm taking in all of the information in the thread and going from there.
Mdreamer
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Re: Front speaker replacement question

Post by Mdreamer »

Watut wrote: Jun 13, 2022 1:03 PM ive got a set of boston 4x6s out of my parts e28 if that interests you
I have pm'd you.
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