Philosophy of car modification

General conversations about BMW E28s and the people who own them.
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jpmadden3
Posts: 14
Joined: Apr 15, 2022 12:04 AM
Location: Salt Lake City

Philosophy of car modification

Post by jpmadden3 »

Folks,
I am a new owner of a 1983 e28 533i. It has about 180k miles on it, bought from original owner, has been in SLC, Utah it’s entire life. I am sorry if setting this question up takes some time.

The PO has taken very good care of it. I had pre-inspection done, a lot of new/replaced core components, new front-end, exhaust etc, questionable compression, but otherwise mechanically very sound.

Where this guy didn’t put a lot of energy in upkeep is on the paint/interior. The interior is actually in pretty good shape given it’s age (splitting upholstery, cracked dash) – need to find a code to understand the color scheme of the seats/interior.

But this car’s paint job is nearly non-existent, especially on top of the hood, trunk, and roof. It’s not obvious at first. The car’s color code is Bronzit Beige Metallic (139). I am not a fan.

I am curious what the philosophy of this group is around customizing/evolving original aspects of cars. I get that’s an unfair generalized question. But I see interiors updated in Porsche Tartan (woot, woot), and a lot of variation of colors/patterns, engine swaps, etc.

I get that probably the ‘smartest’ thing to do is repaint in the original color, but I am curious what thoughts are here regarding painting non-original colors. My idea is a BMW color true to year, but not model, e.g. 152 – Cyprus Green or something like that.

Perhaps I am a victim of following too many BAT auctions and seeing what is said with variance from original everything. I am very excited about this car, it’s very, very stock. I get it’s not a 535i, with the more powerful engine or the M. I have no ambition to restore driven by maximizing return on investment but having a fun car that doesn’t cost a fortune, maintain a significant portion myself. I had a 76 2002 during college, and I miss that car, but I also want something a ‘little more’.

Anyway, not trying to be too emo here, but just curious about how this group generally approaches their management of their cars. Mostly curious about negatives in straying from stock that I may not see/understand yet.

Thanks for the consideration!
Regards
Joe
Blue Shadow
Posts: 10195
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: SE PA

Re: Philosophy of car modification

Post by Blue Shadow »

In this community of thousands, seven people like bronzit and a few hate the pacific blue interior. Most of the rest haven't brought a lot of comments. Do as you like.

Build sheet is under rear seat attached to crossbar of seat bottom and has colors and non-standard option codes. Fully loaded US cars have very few option codes but an equivalent € car would have about 10-15. Failing to find the built sheet, a piece of tractor printer pater, you can find the info in one of the on line VIN decoders.

The light beige common in the Bronzit cars is Perl Beige. There are a few different darker colors that may have been part of the interior other than the black dash.

Link a web hosted pic and folks can tell you what you have.
jpmadden3
Posts: 14
Joined: Apr 15, 2022 12:04 AM
Location: Salt Lake City

Re: Philosophy of car modification

Post by jpmadden3 »

Perfect - thank you!
Mike W.
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Re: Philosophy of car modification

Post by Mike W. »

And I'm one of those 7. Regardless, as these cars age, originality is starting to become more important in resale value. But still, many modifications do not negatively affect value, as long as they're "tasteful" which is pretty vague I admit. Taste aside, even as the cars get older and increase in value it's not like say a classic Ferrari of which only 12 were made and 2 left, so to me, it's your car, do what you want to it.

Now to do a color change and do it right, is a very big and expensive job, but a quick spray of a different color with only the outside of the door painted doesn't look good. Regarding what the PO did or didn't do in terms of paint, it's expensive to fix failing clearcoat and he might not have been up for the cost. They all have cracked dashes and those are expensive to do anything with. But if he drove it, and kept up the mechanicals, that might have been what he either cared about or could afford.
jpmadden3
Posts: 14
Joined: Apr 15, 2022 12:04 AM
Location: Salt Lake City

Re: Philosophy of car modification

Post by jpmadden3 »

Mike - I appreciate your response. I assume you mean color change right, means door jams, engine bay, yadda, yadda, correct? It is a serious consideration, thanks again

Joe
Mike W.
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Re: Philosophy of car modification

Post by Mike W. »

jpmadden3 wrote: Apr 16, 2022 2:18 AM Mike - I appreciate your response. I assume you mean color change right, means door jams, engine bay, yadda, yadda, correct? It is a serious consideration, thanks again

Joe
Exactly. Granted things done aren't always done for economic reasons, but a color change paint job would probably be double the value of the car after the new paint. Your money of course, just something to consider.
shallam
Posts: 23
Joined: Dec 30, 2020 10:30 AM
Location: SLC

Re: Philosophy of car modification

Post by shallam »

Joe, glad to know that another e28 is being preserved for the streets of SLC. Welcome to e28 ownership. You likely bought the car as an enthusiast - I say make it exactly how you want it. I have a strong personal preference for “tasteful” modifications, which of course is perfectly subjective; however, sounds like you’re playing it safe in considering other colors from the BMW pallet.

You’re probably not shooting for a trailer queen you can sell on BAT for $50k+; so, again, make it how you want it.
1st 5er
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Re: Philosophy of car modification

Post by 1st 5er »

jpmadden3 wrote: Apr 15, 2022 7:45 PM
... Mostly curious about negatives in straying from stock that I may not see/understand yet.

Thanks for the consideration!
Regards
Joe


Re: ^^^that part^^^

The "look back" quotient weighs heavy in the equation of appreciation, however, to me suspension, tire and wheel sizes, etc., are where the rubber hits the road, so to speak, in the real enjoyment of these old cars.

P.S.
I like Bronzit, but, I HATE TIMING BELTS.
jpmadden3
Posts: 14
Joined: Apr 15, 2022 12:04 AM
Location: Salt Lake City

Re: Philosophy of car modification

Post by jpmadden3 »

Shallam and 1st 5er - thanks so much for the input.

Shallam, good to know there is someone in my neck of the woods, couple of quick questions:
1. Do you have a preferred mechanic here that you like?
2. Is there a local BMW group or German car group, that you like?

1st 5er – have to say Bronzit is growing on me…
After input from you folks, reviewing some google images of Bronzit BMWs, then reviewing this posthttps://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?f=7 ... e#p1180619 and especially this link https://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=114050&start=0 – I am all in – Bring on the Bronzit 😊

Again, thanks all!
Joe
1st 5er
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Re: Philosophy of car modification

Post by 1st 5er »

jpmadden3
Posts: 14
Joined: Apr 15, 2022 12:04 AM
Location: Salt Lake City

Re: Philosophy of car modification

Post by jpmadden3 »

Wow - that was an epic journey...
1st 5er
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Re: Philosophy of car modification

Post by 1st 5er »

jpmadden3 wrote: Apr 18, 2022 6:00 PM Wow - that was an epic journey...
*is :lol: from Sammie's perspective.
Foonfer
Posts: 702
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Location: New York, NY

Re: Philosophy of car modification

Post by Foonfer »

Count me in as the No.8 fan of Bronzit.

Much maligned as a color because (supposedly) it degrades more quickly under the sun, or (supposedly) because back in the day it was all the rage among the finance douchebros, the Gekko-wannabes of 1980s excess - what do I know.

I like Bronzit because it's a bit boring. In the design world, there is nothing as perdurable as something that is a bit boring. Flash, dazzle, pop - that draws your attention and your WOW for a short period, and it becomes "too much" after a short while. "Bit Boring" remains intriguing, makes you want to figure out what is it that you like about something so uneventful, it keeps you coming back for more.

Give me a Bronzit, Lachssilber, Cirrusblau or Delphin (my own, and my favorite) over a Zinno, Arktis or Diamantschwarz any day of the week.

Granted, finding a good interior match for these lighter colors might be a challenge; typically a dark exterior is easily matched by a dark or neutral interior, but a neutral exterior doesn't necessarily match with a neutral or a dark interior. I'd wager that Bronzit would match very well with an interior made out in Taurusrot or in gray Alpina fabric, not so much in Pearl Beige, Llama or Nutria. Black is probably too severe but could work.

As for the car. "Mike W" said in another thread not too long ago that E28s are still far from "numbers matching" desirability criteria, but please consider that yours is a 533, which, in and of itself, is already special. Yes it's not the most powerful E28, but those in the know (here and elsewhere) describe it as one of the best driving experiences among stock E28s, the best balanced, the ___ (insert good thing you can think of, it's been said of the 533). And as someone else said to me recently, "if what you want is to smoke an E28 M5 at a traffic light, all you need is a modern Honda minivan. Full of people, even."

Yes to tasteful modifications. What does that even mean? Only you can tell. The best instructor is this website - give yourself time to observe, to learn and to draw your own conclusions. Some guys will prefer to deviate e v e r s o s l i g h t l y from stock, others will throw in 17" wheels, add SPARCO racing seatbelts and powdercoat their intake manifold bright purple. To each his own - My recommendation would be to start by trying to develop a sense of what is, or looks, "period correct" for the E28. From there on, you set the boundaries of where you want to go.

Good luck!
Foonfer
Posts: 702
Joined: Mar 18, 2015 11:33 PM
Location: New York, NY

Re: Philosophy of car modification

Post by Foonfer »

Count me in as the No.8 fan of Bronzit.

Much maligned as a color because (supposedly) it degrades more quickly under the sun, or (supposedly) because back in the day it was all the rage among the finance douchebros, the Gekko-wannabes of 1980s excess - what do I know.

I like Bronzit because it's a bit boring. In the design world, there is nothing as perdurable as something that is a bit boring. Flash, dazzle, pop - that draws your attention and your WOW for a short period, and it becomes "too much" after a short while. "Bit Boring" remains intriguing, makes you want to figure out what is it that you like about something so uneventful, it keeps you coming back for more.

Give me a Bronzit, Lachssilber, Cirrusblau or Delphin (my own, and my favorite) over a Zinno, Arktis or Diamantschwarz any day of the week.

Granted, finding a good interior match for these lighter colors might be a challenge; typically a dark exterior is easily matched by a dark or neutral interior, but a neutral exterior doesn't necessarily match with a neutral or a dark interior. I'd wager that Bronzit would match very well with an interior made out in Taurusrot or in gray Alpina fabric, not so much in Pearl Beige, Llama or Nutria. Black is probably too severe but could work.

As for the car. "Mike W" said in another thread not too long ago that E28s are still far from "numbers matching" desirability criteria, but please consider that yours is a 533, which, in and of itself, is already special. Yes it's not the most powerful E28, but those in the know (here and elsewhere) describe it as one of the best driving experiences among stock E28s, the best balanced, the ___ (insert good thing you can think of, it's been said of the 533). And as someone else said to me recently, "if what you want is to smoke an E28 M5 at a traffic light, all you need is a modern Honda minivan. Full of people, even."

Yes to tasteful modifications. What does that even mean? Only you can tell. The best instructor is this website - give yourself time to observe, to learn and to draw your own conclusions. Some guys will prefer to deviate e v e r s o s l i g h t l y from stock, others will throw in 17" wheels, add SPARCO racing seatbelts and powdercoat their intake manifold bright purple. To each his own - My recommendation would be to start by trying to develop a sense of what is, or looks, "period correct" for the E28. From there on, you set the boundaries of where you want to go.

Good luck!
LeiseyJr
Posts: 1525
Joined: Dec 22, 2013 10:11 PM
Location: Houston,Tx

Re: Philosophy of car modification

Post by LeiseyJr »

First.Fuck my opinion and others opinion. Unless you plan to sell later ;)

Use this forum as a tool to research rare/optional parts, DIY procedures, and common failure points.

Do not use this forum or community to build the same damn cookie cutter e28. Unless of course you are into that.

There is wrong information on here. Not everything here is the bible, not to say there isn’t plenty of fantastic information on here.

If you plan to sell the car or plan to get your money back out of it later, then staying within cookie cutter framework is a great idea.

You already messed up by getting Bronzit IMO. If you don’t like the color switch it. The extent you go to color change it is on you. It is considered tasteful to not have mismatched door jams and take it down to bare shell for color change. That is a lot of work to go to bare shell. What will you be happy with?


I personally prefer original paint that shows an honest car. Most people would prefer a respray over fucked paint.

As far as interior goes, again I prefer original fabric. I have spent a lot of time and money swapping to a Mocca interior. I still don’t have all the pieces, and most people don’t give a shit since it is brown. It is one of those things I wanted to do, so I did it.

Mechanical upgrades again feel free to do it. Sky is the limit. If it’s just a old vintage car you want to drive around there is nothing wrong with the eta engine.

The car has been driven for a long time with it, is there really any reason to change it from stock? Do you have a use case? Do you just want to have fun upgrading it?


I started with the cheapest 528e, I could find off of craigslist. I grew up around the track, so naturally that has reflected itself into my e28 overtime. It also has a lot of rare parts on it and I am genuinely proud of that. I don’t think my car would sell for anything I have into it. It is what it is. However, I’ve met fantastic people along the way and learned a lot. Whenever I give people rides in my car they drive it they usually get out smiling. So it’s been worth it.

viewtopic.php?t=126811


- fellow Bronzit clown
BMWCCA2
Posts: 4060
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Location: Central Virginia

Re: Philosophy of car modification

Post by BMWCCA2 »

Foonfer wrote: Apr 18, 2022 10:56 PMGranted, finding a good interior match for these lighter colors might be a challenge; typically a dark exterior is easily matched by a dark or neutral interior, but a neutral exterior doesn't necessarily match with a neutral or a dark interior. I'd wager that Bronzit would match very well with an interior made out in Taurusrot or in gray Alpina fabric, not so much in Pearl Beige, Llama or Nutria. Black is probably too severe but could work.
It will show my age but I was there at the beginning of E28 time. I remember the first 528e rolling off the truck at our dealership. It wasn't my first new BMW product launch because I was also there when the first E21 was unloaded and—shortly thereafter—I stood it on its roof as it showed the handling flaws perpetrated by BMW engineers who "softened" it for the US market. But I digress . . .

When BMW launched a new color back then they came out with descriptions of the new color and then produced a chart with a matrix showing the suggestions for interior colors to go with them marking some as primary recommendations, others as also available, and others as not-available with that exterior color. I remember distinctly Bronzit was described as "Metallic White" with the primary recommendation for an interior color to match it being Pacific Blue. If I can lay my hands on that little blue vinyl ring-binder book with the charts and colors, I could prove it. But, for the time being, you'll just have to believe me under any credibility I earned by being the "guest" speaker for Fiver-Fest 2005.

Truth be told, I have owned two Diamond Barf (term of endearment related to clear-coat failure) 535is both with black leather, an Arctic Blue 535i with perl, and currently own a Lachsilber 535is with black and a Delphin 535i with perl beige leather. Given a choice my, I'd prefer Lachsilber with Cardinal Red. With familiarity comes contempt and Bronzit might be my last choice for an E28, not that there is a color bad enough to refuse if the car were in pristine shape otherwise.
Nosis
Posts: 329
Joined: Nov 25, 2009 10:38 PM
Location: Denver

Re: Philosophy of car modification

Post by Nosis »

Ah the Bronzit conundrum. My first e28 was Bronzit with Llami, a 535i/5 with failed clearcoat, a decent interior, and a fair amount of rust. I loved the car and, thanks to this community, was able to do tons of little upgrades and projects using cheap junkyard parts (not as easy today as that was over 10 years ago when parts cars were always available). A little later I picked up a euro e24 in Bronzit over pearl beige cloth, also in rough shape but as rust-free as I could have hoped. The e28 was too rusty to be viable and the e24 was hit and junked a few years later. So I've looked at a lot of faded Bronzit but don't own any.

Point is, with both of those cars, I, like I think you are describing, tried to fall in love with the color so I could stay excited about fixing up the car. Best I could tell, Bronzit is a very attractive color and looks amazing, when it is perfect. I'm not sure if it was a RonP car but one of the first (that I know of) really high-end euro conversion professional restorations was done in bronzit with black leather and it was the bee's knees. Else, it just falls flat.

After those two cars, I swore no more Bronzit and have made good... I have a Burgundrot and Alpine White and love both of them. As much as I dislike faded Bronzit, I do like the color. So, maybe stick with it - I bet even a lower-end paintjob with a fresh coat of Bronzit and clear will look amazing. IMO, you'd still have to deal with the one color I truly hate, the Pearl Beige interior!!!

As far as value goes, I would suggest be honest with yourself about how far you want to take the car / what kind of project car person you are. If you know that you won't be happy doing even little projects without really going deep and doing it right, using good parts and materials, cleaning all the hardware and improving all the adjacent areas, you might end up with a car that could actually bring big money had you kept it more "correct." I don't really know... I'm just typing! Anyway, welcome and have so much fun with the car - I don't really think you can go wrong either way because the e28 is just so cool.

Cheers.

Cyp
Galahad
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Re: Philosophy of car modification

Post by Galahad »

Depending on how garbage your clear coat is, you could vinyl wrap the car. Then you don't have to worry about messing with originality or dealing with Bronzit (a color which, in my opinion, is near the bottom of what looks good on these cars). I'm tempted to wrap my nice 528e in some absolutely bizarre color just because I can and it'll keep the UV off the paint.
Chimi-Changa
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Joined: Nov 08, 2011 11:02 PM
Location: West Bro, MA

Re: Philosophy of car modification

Post by Chimi-Changa »

And there's this one:

viewtopic.php?p=1080991#p1080991
jpmadden3
Posts: 14
Joined: Apr 15, 2022 12:04 AM
Location: Salt Lake City

Re: Philosophy of car modification

Post by jpmadden3 »

Folks, great input, appreciate getting the responses, and the variance isn’t as extreme as I would’ve expected, I wonder if that represents what the e28 owner is like relative to other BMW vintages.

Especially appreciate seeing is input from some serious long-term players in this space.

Foonfer, appreciate the background, and the perspective around interior color – have taken pictures, need to figure out posting thing, but also pull the back seat to look for specific code, a lot of beige, and dark brown. Agree with the ‘Bit Boring’ thing, it’s different to modern colors, and true to the car…

Leisey Jr, my wife started barking at me around 12:30AM reading your EPIC journey…I was only on page 7 😊, serious respect for all that you’ve done. Appreciate your words, and especially the use-case phrase – as a guy in IT, I get that, and find myself really starting to process that now that the baby is in the house.

BMWCCA2, appreciate the insight/background – I do have to confess, I have a hard time visualizing Pacific Blue working with Bronzit – but to each their own.

Cyp, I think your approach, is how I am thinking about it, part of what I am trying to do is slow down and focus on the algebra stuff first, then calculus…

Galahad, I have quite a few friends that are Porsche/Range Rover guys and they LOVE the wrap approach – I was going to seriously consider it as an intermediate solution, but my friend's son, who does this, looked at my car, kind of laughed, and said, the paint job has so deteriorated that I’d really need to prep, and prime before he could feel good about a wrap job…so if I am going to do that, might as well just paint it…or least that’s my thought.

Again, great feedback, appreciate the depth of experience and perspective.

Regards
Joe
shallam
Posts: 23
Joined: Dec 30, 2020 10:30 AM
Location: SLC

Re: Philosophy of car modification

Post by shallam »

jpmadden3 wrote: Apr 17, 2022 11:53 PM Shallam and 1st 5er - thanks so much for the input.

Shallam, good to know there is someone in my neck of the woods, couple of quick questions:
1. Do you have a preferred mechanic here that you like?
2. Is there a local BMW group or German car group, that you like?

Again, thanks all!
Joe
Hey Joe, No, I've not found a mechanic I like in the area - I've spoken to a couple, but no one that knows these cars well. I highly recommend buying a Bentley manual and leveraging the forum to gain your own expertise. Happy to help if you get stuck on anything. I also have a selection of parts (e.g. M5/is front air dam, 3.25 LSD, various Motronic components) don't hesitate to reach out if you're looking for something.
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