Latest thoughts on e46?
-
- Posts: 685
- Joined: Apr 03, 2008 2:21 AM
- Location: Brooklyn
Latest thoughts on e46?
If the new used transmission I'm putting in my truck is a dud, I'll be shopping for a new vehicle. This hypothetical new vehicle is reliable, AWD, and you could potentially lie down in it. An e46 touring i.e. 325xi might check these boxes. I've always thought they would age really well, and they are. This would be the family car as opposed to Dad's you can't eat ice cream in here e28. It would need to be sort of a set-and-forget vehicle that I wouldn't be pouring money into in the long term - with the assumption some hopefully minimal amount of baselining will be necessary.
I am curious what the latest word is on e46's reliability - what are common failure points as these things are approaching the 15 year old mark? Anyone have one in the stable? Care to share thoughts?
I am curious what the latest word is on e46's reliability - what are common failure points as these things are approaching the 15 year old mark? Anyone have one in the stable? Care to share thoughts?
-
- Posts: 685
- Joined: Apr 03, 2008 2:21 AM
- Location: Brooklyn
Re: Latest thoughts on e46?
Thanks but I trust y'all more.
Re: Latest thoughts on e46?
Obviously the xi designation will be way more expensive to fix than the regular i.
Re: Latest thoughts on e46?
Although we all love them 20+ year old BMW's are not "set-and-forget vehicles".
Re: Latest thoughts on e46?
buy a Subaru
-
- Posts: 9380
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
- Location: Minneapolis
Re: Latest thoughts on e46?
No personal experience, but I know a couple guys who have had e46 325xi cars and as far as I know they had very good luck with them. A 325xi touring would be on my short list, too.
Re: Latest thoughts on e46?
I owned a 2000 328ci from new and it was an awesome car for its time. The next owner had to replace the Vanos.stuartinmn wrote: ↑Feb 02, 2022 6:26 PM No personal experience, but I know a couple guys who have had e46 325xi cars and as far as I know they had very good luck with them. A 325xi touring would be on my short list, too.
Re: Latest thoughts on e46?
Vanos is no big deal. Intimidating, but not difficult or expensive, I've done 3 or 4 now, it's just an afternoon and a hundred bucks in parts. They're still a 3 series, which means not as nice as a 5, but they keep getting better. My E36 and E39s which are similar mechanically have been reliable, albeit with an occasional really odd quirk or two. The little wagons are cool, but not big. It might come down to what's available, but if you're getting the touring for the utility factor, look at the space first, it's not all that big.gwb72tii wrote: ↑Feb 02, 2022 6:47 PMI owned a 2000 328ci from new and it was an awesome car for its time. The next owner had to replace the Vanos.stuartinmn wrote: ↑Feb 02, 2022 6:26 PM No personal experience, but I know a couple guys who have had e46 325xi cars and as far as I know they had very good luck with them. A 325xi touring would be on my short list, too.
Re: Latest thoughts on e46?
Very true.
In addition, the AWD in the E46 seems to blow CV joints and axles around 80-90k-miles. I don't see the same issue with the E90 series xDrive cars, which is why I replaced my wife's totaled 128i sport with a 2007 328ixDrive Sport with xenons. The sport seats are what saved her in the 128 wreck and the AWD has been a lifesaver during the recent snow and ice which now two-weeks later is still making our 1/4-mile shaded gravel drive an issue for other vehicles. Hers was a one-owner, garage-kept, trade-in from an older couple. Not a wagon but fold-down seats, low miles and likely much less money than what E46 wagons are bringing these days.
Also, the interior trim in the E46 doesn't seem to age very well between peeling coating on plastic console pieces to delaminating headliner material on A-pillars, sunroof blinds, and sometimes the entire headliner.
Last edited by BMWCCA2 on Feb 03, 2022 7:39 AM, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 685
- Joined: Apr 03, 2008 2:21 AM
- Location: Brooklyn
Re: Latest thoughts on e46?
This is all great info, keep it coming! I ain't afraid a no VANOS. Crappy interiors though...
-
- Posts: 5278
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
- Location: Leesburg, VA
Re: Latest thoughts on e46?
Better than E36 interiors.
-
- Posts: 1621
- Joined: May 10, 2006 11:27 AM
- Location: Cheshire, CT
Re: Latest thoughts on e46?
I owned a 2004 330xi with a 6 speed for ~260k miles (my dad was the original owner). It was my daily driver, so minimal performance mods (intake, Koni's, short shifter, and urethane control arm bushings). I'd to it all over again, I miss that car greatly. Only issue I had was the CCV system froze up on me on a super cold day (needed a tow home). Common "things":
- Front axles - it's worth buying GKN or other german replacements over cheap ones. Boots still tear at ~100k, but they're easy to replace if you grease the splines
- Control arm bushings - replace with urethane and then never think about them again. Stock ones suck, delrin or harder squeak.
- Oil leaks - my motor never leaked a drop, but it was in the family since new. When subjected to dealer extended drains, it seems leaks are more prone to happen
- Valve cover gasket - needs replacement at ~100k or so
- Cooling system - just replace it every 100k or so
- Fuel pump - same thing - 100k or so
- VANOS - I rebuilt mine at 100k and never again - it's not hard, but you need to take your time. This won't strand you though.
- Xenon headlights - buy good bulbs (theretrofitsource), cheap ones wreak havoc on the ballasts and ignitors for some reason.
- Interior - I had a spotless sand beige interior after 260k - it's possible. The only panel I had to replace was the C pillars (sagging), and the sun visor clips (plastic got brittle and fell apart). Oh - the arm wrest leather is easy to replace and a common wear item.
- AWD system - change the fluids. Other than that, it's just 2 open diffs and a fixed split transfer case. Not a "smart" system, but fantastic traction in rain/snow/etc. Perfect for a New England daily driver.
Comes with room for a full sized spare - so get a set of snow wheels/tires and leave one of those in the spare well upside down with jumper cables inside it.
- Front axles - it's worth buying GKN or other german replacements over cheap ones. Boots still tear at ~100k, but they're easy to replace if you grease the splines
- Control arm bushings - replace with urethane and then never think about them again. Stock ones suck, delrin or harder squeak.
- Oil leaks - my motor never leaked a drop, but it was in the family since new. When subjected to dealer extended drains, it seems leaks are more prone to happen
- Valve cover gasket - needs replacement at ~100k or so
- Cooling system - just replace it every 100k or so
- Fuel pump - same thing - 100k or so
- VANOS - I rebuilt mine at 100k and never again - it's not hard, but you need to take your time. This won't strand you though.
- Xenon headlights - buy good bulbs (theretrofitsource), cheap ones wreak havoc on the ballasts and ignitors for some reason.
- Interior - I had a spotless sand beige interior after 260k - it's possible. The only panel I had to replace was the C pillars (sagging), and the sun visor clips (plastic got brittle and fell apart). Oh - the arm wrest leather is easy to replace and a common wear item.
- AWD system - change the fluids. Other than that, it's just 2 open diffs and a fixed split transfer case. Not a "smart" system, but fantastic traction in rain/snow/etc. Perfect for a New England daily driver.
Comes with room for a full sized spare - so get a set of snow wheels/tires and leave one of those in the spare well upside down with jumper cables inside it.
-
- Posts: 9380
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
- Location: Minneapolis
Re: Latest thoughts on e46?
Learn something new every day - I thought the e46 xi had some sort of electronically controlled system. I have an e30 ix, those of course are totally mechanical.athayer187 wrote: ↑Feb 03, 2022 3:33 PM - AWD system - change the fluids. Other than that, it's just 2 open diffs and a fixed split transfer case. Not a "smart" system, but fantastic traction in rain/snow/etc. Perfect for a New England daily driver.
Re: Latest thoughts on e46?
Also known as "Damning with faint praise."
Re: Latest thoughts on e46?
My son has a 330ci ZHP 6 speed and we've both had limited experience on some xi cars. I like the 2 wheel drive car but I would not want the all wheel drive in any 3 series car. Not sure about the e46 but later xi cars will also throw a fault for the AWD if there is a sensor or other issues with the transfer case. Not only that, when (not if) the front end starts leaking oil and you think maybe it needs an oil pan gasket you will be in for a very big job to fix it but probably decide to live with it. If you are lucky the oil is coming from the oil filter housing gasket which is known issue. Maybe an e90 is better in that regard but then you get the darn near impossible to replace electric water pump in the xi. Coolant overflow/reservoir and caps should be replaced along with the wax t-stat and plastic water pump before they fail in e46.
If you change the CCV on these cars use the cold weather version which just works better. Just take the manifold off and do all the valve cover and seals on all this stuff (like oil filter housing) while you have easy access. There are several other seals in the general area. We did the Besian improved vanos seals and part of the process requires access to a surface grinder that will let you tweak the parts perfectly (just replacing the seal is not enough IMO as Mike makes it sound). All this stuff in the 100-125k range before it fails.
We did all this on my sons car around 110 K and it was running like new afterwards. But the ZHP cams are more aggressive and a bit harder on the vanos parts so maybe not as big a deal on regular motors. M3 vanos is really expensive affair btw.
The main thing I would like to improve on the two wheel drive cars is a real LSD so you can turn the traction nannies off and use as meant to work. Maybe that does not apply to AWD if that's what you prefer.
If you change the CCV on these cars use the cold weather version which just works better. Just take the manifold off and do all the valve cover and seals on all this stuff (like oil filter housing) while you have easy access. There are several other seals in the general area. We did the Besian improved vanos seals and part of the process requires access to a surface grinder that will let you tweak the parts perfectly (just replacing the seal is not enough IMO as Mike makes it sound). All this stuff in the 100-125k range before it fails.
We did all this on my sons car around 110 K and it was running like new afterwards. But the ZHP cams are more aggressive and a bit harder on the vanos parts so maybe not as big a deal on regular motors. M3 vanos is really expensive affair btw.
The main thing I would like to improve on the two wheel drive cars is a real LSD so you can turn the traction nannies off and use as meant to work. Maybe that does not apply to AWD if that's what you prefer.
-
- Posts: 5052
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
- Location: Don't waste my motherf***in' time!
- Contact:
Re: Latest thoughts on e46?
stuartinmn wrote: ↑Feb 02, 2022 6:26 PM No personal experience, but I know a couple guys who have had e46 325xi cars and as far as I know they had very good luck with them. A 325xi touring would be on my short list, too.
My 2004 325xi touring 5spd was a money pit. Suspension, cooling system, vacuum leaks, rust, front axles, and brittle plastic pieces always cracking in the cargo area. I don't miss it.
Re: Latest thoughts on e46?
IMHO, you are better off with an e91 325iX (2006-only) or 328iX if you want an AWD BMW wagon. That much newer, more modern architecture, more power, fewer built-in dilemmas (though it's a BMW, there are a few), waaay less prone to rust, and more efficient. They are aging more gracefully. I don't think they are any harder to work on, though of course either an app or a laptop that can talk to the car is pretty key. But that is cheap to nearly free. Last and best of the n/a inline six cars. I don't think the e46s are bad cars at all, but I think the next generation were better cars, and as long as you aren't looking for a 6spd RWD one the prices aren't that much different. And at this point, they are more plentiful.
I'm biased of course, having been the very, very happy owner of one of those ~450 RWD+6spd unicorn e91s in the US from new. I plan to take it to my grave, and given it only passed 50K last summer, it may well make it. With my 2011 128i that I also adore:
BMWs from the back by kevinr1916, on Flickr
I'm biased of course, having been the very, very happy owner of one of those ~450 RWD+6spd unicorn e91s in the US from new. I plan to take it to my grave, and given it only passed 50K last summer, it may well make it. With my 2011 128i that I also adore:
BMWs from the back by kevinr1916, on Flickr
-
- Posts: 685
- Joined: Apr 03, 2008 2:21 AM
- Location: Brooklyn
Re: Latest thoughts on e46?
Thanks for all of the input. This all got a little more serious as the transmission I just put in the truck has a bad input shaft bearing woo hoo
Re: Latest thoughts on e46?
I've owned 3 over the years. Had issues with the coolant expansion tanks on all 3. Made of weak plastic that cracks and leaks over time. On my current xi I have an aluminum expansion tank and have yet to have any problems. Ccv failure in all 3 as well. Running a catch can setup on mine now and haven had problems since. Other than that and the cheap interior pieces I've loved all 3. Got over 350k miles out of my 01 330xi. One of the best cars I ever owned and an absolute beast in the snow with the right tires. Properly maintenance is key
Re: Latest thoughts on e46?
The reason I would never own an E46 was similar to the reason I would never own an E36 or any 3-series newer than the E30...
By design, the tech from the 5er works its way down to the 3er. Good news for the 3er line, I suppose. But there's a price you pay for paying less for a 3er than a 5er, and that is in quality of components. Of course, since you spend most of the time in the interior, you notice the difference in quality there first.
I also did not realize the Xi was a largely mechanical 4-wheel-drive system. But remembering the ix, they can break and have expensive components (like the transfer case). One thing I am convinced of is that a competent RWD BMW with competent snow tires (I love Nokian) is superior to any 4-wheel-drive system with all-seasons or decidedly lesser tires. So I would not limit my search to an E46 iX. I would spend the money better on winter wheels and Hakkapeliittas. Either one (E46 iX or E46 with snows) is far superior to a sewing machine, er, I mean, Subaru, but that is just one man's opinion...
One thing about the 330i is that it is the same engine as the 530i E39. The weakness, as most have pointed out, is the brittle underengineered coolant system that plagues both models. That is a VERY expensive system to replace every 100k miles as a maintenance thing -- there's quite a few parts needing replacement. It's the difference between happy BMW ownership and thinking BMW's suck because one is too cheap to perform "regular" maintenance.
Another thing about the E46 I recall is that the rear subframe needed to be reinforced if the car was tracked. A kit was developed and most folks that tracked their E46s had this upgrade done. I remember when they were popular... how many E46s would go off track... into the gravel... to find one or both rear wheels folded under... from gravel!! Nuts.
Yes, the Touring was not significantly larger than a regular E46. The Touring filled a VERY niche market. Personally, like the E30 Touring, they're totally cool simply because they are rare.
Good luck with your decision!
By design, the tech from the 5er works its way down to the 3er. Good news for the 3er line, I suppose. But there's a price you pay for paying less for a 3er than a 5er, and that is in quality of components. Of course, since you spend most of the time in the interior, you notice the difference in quality there first.
I also did not realize the Xi was a largely mechanical 4-wheel-drive system. But remembering the ix, they can break and have expensive components (like the transfer case). One thing I am convinced of is that a competent RWD BMW with competent snow tires (I love Nokian) is superior to any 4-wheel-drive system with all-seasons or decidedly lesser tires. So I would not limit my search to an E46 iX. I would spend the money better on winter wheels and Hakkapeliittas. Either one (E46 iX or E46 with snows) is far superior to a sewing machine, er, I mean, Subaru, but that is just one man's opinion...
One thing about the 330i is that it is the same engine as the 530i E39. The weakness, as most have pointed out, is the brittle underengineered coolant system that plagues both models. That is a VERY expensive system to replace every 100k miles as a maintenance thing -- there's quite a few parts needing replacement. It's the difference between happy BMW ownership and thinking BMW's suck because one is too cheap to perform "regular" maintenance.
Another thing about the E46 I recall is that the rear subframe needed to be reinforced if the car was tracked. A kit was developed and most folks that tracked their E46s had this upgrade done. I remember when they were popular... how many E46s would go off track... into the gravel... to find one or both rear wheels folded under... from gravel!! Nuts.
Yes, the Touring was not significantly larger than a regular E46. The Touring filled a VERY niche market. Personally, like the E30 Touring, they're totally cool simply because they are rare.
Good luck with your decision!
Re: Latest thoughts on e46?
My 2001 325Ci has 338k miles. I got it at 155k and it needed a new cooling system.
The sunroof mechanism failed. One of the cable guides split and the cable would push out of the guide and not move the sunroof. Also, the sliding tab that pushes the manual panel back and forth as the motor moves failed (a common problem). The correct fix for all of this would have been expensive, but I figured out a cheap and effective solution.
Recently the blower motor resistor (actually an electronic device) failed. It's one of those things that can drain your battery when the car is off. It was a pain to replace, but we've all dealt with worse.
Another thing that can drain your battery when the car is off is the electric engine fan, and that failed too. It can drain the battery even if the fan itself isn't turning. Fortunately it's very easy to replace.
The windshield washer motor fail multiple times. This is odd because it appears to be almost the same part as on the E28 - only the electrical connector is different - and that component on my old 535i lasted the life of the car, which is over a half million miles.
I've had weird electrical issues. The cruise control is unreliable. I've had the taillights fail so that they stay on even when the car is off. The fix, so https://www.e46fanatics.com assured me, was to replace the ignition switch. That solution would never have occurred to me.
The BC button on the turn signal stalk failed, and I had to buy another stalk to fix it. That button on my 535i never failed.
Finally, the headliner is coming off in the usual places. I expect I can fix this with the right kind of adhesive, but it isn't bothering me enough yet. And yet again, that part in my 535i lasted the life of the car.
From what I hear, that's the way it is (or worse) with new BMWs. Hoovie's mechanic, aka "the Car Wizard" dislikes new BMWs for that reason - they're unreliable and hard to work on, but he's OK with older ones. He likes the E21. I guess somebody has to.
The sunroof mechanism failed. One of the cable guides split and the cable would push out of the guide and not move the sunroof. Also, the sliding tab that pushes the manual panel back and forth as the motor moves failed (a common problem). The correct fix for all of this would have been expensive, but I figured out a cheap and effective solution.
Recently the blower motor resistor (actually an electronic device) failed. It's one of those things that can drain your battery when the car is off. It was a pain to replace, but we've all dealt with worse.
Another thing that can drain your battery when the car is off is the electric engine fan, and that failed too. It can drain the battery even if the fan itself isn't turning. Fortunately it's very easy to replace.
The windshield washer motor fail multiple times. This is odd because it appears to be almost the same part as on the E28 - only the electrical connector is different - and that component on my old 535i lasted the life of the car, which is over a half million miles.
I've had weird electrical issues. The cruise control is unreliable. I've had the taillights fail so that they stay on even when the car is off. The fix, so https://www.e46fanatics.com assured me, was to replace the ignition switch. That solution would never have occurred to me.
The BC button on the turn signal stalk failed, and I had to buy another stalk to fix it. That button on my 535i never failed.
Finally, the headliner is coming off in the usual places. I expect I can fix this with the right kind of adhesive, but it isn't bothering me enough yet. And yet again, that part in my 535i lasted the life of the car.
From what I hear, that's the way it is (or worse) with new BMWs. Hoovie's mechanic, aka "the Car Wizard" dislikes new BMWs for that reason - they're unreliable and hard to work on, but he's OK with older ones. He likes the E21. I guess somebody has to.
Re: Latest thoughts on e46?
^^^
Funny, I have/had almost all the same issues with my 2001 E39 530i now at 219K miles (not all but many of them).
Most of the systems platforms were the same across the 3, 5, 7 and X5 of that generation so it stands that the same problems plague all the series.
Funny, I have/had almost all the same issues with my 2001 E39 530i now at 219K miles (not all but many of them).
Most of the systems platforms were the same across the 3, 5, 7 and X5 of that generation so it stands that the same problems plague all the series.
Re: Latest thoughts on e46?
Unfortunately the headliner issue is usually the foam backing behind the liner material turns to dust leaving the fabric held by . . . nothing. Even E34s did this.
Re: Latest thoughts on e46?
Having put close to 400K on M5x engines now I think the cooling system weakness is a bit overblown. Radiators are just a maintenance item every 100K just like spark plugs and O2 sensors, and I do the water pump, rad cap, tank and upper hose also, but not the rest of the hoses, they all have cooler water running in them. Oh, sometimes the stats will fail, but that's kind of random. The coolant pipes will need replacement at 175-200 and are a pain in the ass, but the rest of the system I haven't had to mess with. And radiators are cheap, almost absurdly cheap.garageboy wrote: ↑Feb 10, 2022 12:41 AM
One thing about the 330i is that it is the same engine as the 530i E39. The weakness, as most have pointed out, is the brittle underengineered coolant system that plagues both models. That is a VERY expensive system to replace every 100k miles as a maintenance thing -- there's quite a few parts needing replacement. It's the difference between happy BMW ownership and thinking BMW's suck because one is too cheap to perform "regular" maintenance.
As far as working on the newer stuff I've found it's doable, but you need to know the tricks, it's not intuitive.