Waiting For My E28 Purchase

General conversations about BMW E28s and the people who own them.
jyl
Posts: 138
Joined: Jun 02, 2016 8:59 PM
Location: Oregon

Re: Waiting For My E28 Purchase

Post by jyl »

Thanks! I haven't seen any Arktisblau / Pacific Blau cars in person, so I appreciate that information.

I am planning to recover and install sport seats, if I can find a good match to the existing PB upholstery. I'll keep you in mind if that ever happens.

Yes, there was an "is" that was going to be sold to me, but the owner totalled it . . . so I found this "i".

I'm both impressed with the durability of the carpet and happy that mine is separate from the underlayment. I plan to pull the carpet and drive around in our Portland monsoons with bare floors until I am confident that the car leaks not at all. We had 3 inches of rain last Friday!
tn535i wrote: Nov 15, 2021 2:31 PM I know you have all already been over a lot of discussion so if I am repeating sorry...

The blue on blue is the same as my car. If it's not arktisblau (spelling), it's very close. When I got my car it had original paint (still does but less of it) and in the right light it definitely had a lot of purple-ish tint to it. We also had an artic blue e30 before the e28 and it was my favorite color on a 4 door e30/28.

I think you are right the seats look much too shiny but they look like the original leather (fittingof it) to me. The backside of the headrest I can see looks right as do the blue dash components and such. I'm guessing someone has put some kind of leather 'dressing' on those seats. Maybe you have in mind to change it up but if keeping I bet Leatherique two step clean and condition would make them look like you would expect them too.

Personally I think a 7" wheel ideal on the e28 and favorite (as on my car) is the Style 29 which is also one of the easiest to keep clean. Then use a 205/55/16 tire. It's as close to what BMW intended as possible and enough rubber for a 535. I would not try to go 8".

The carpets in these cars is near indestructible as any I've ever seen and usually clean up well. The stuff underneath not so much as you are finding. If you gone this far you might just replace it with newer products which are easily available but I don't know about just foam? I'd be inclined to remove the carper and thoroughly clean it outside the car and not put back until you resolve the moisture issues. There are some combination foam and mass loaded vinyl materials that are great for sound and vibration I would choose rather than just foam. I think it is what BMW sort of had in there.

If I go back to the start of this did you think you were getting an 'is' car or was there an is you had your eye on but lost out on it? I'm not sure?

In any case look like a great starting point to make what you want of it.

Oh, and to be selfish a second... If for some reason you decide to change your seats or recover and you would like to sell a PB seat bottom cover I could sure use one. :)
BMWCCA2
Posts: 4060
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: Central Virginia

Re: Waiting For My E28 Purchase

Post by BMWCCA2 »

I knew I'd seen it somewhere! Thanks for the detective work.
BMWCCA2 wrote: Oct 22, 2021 9:29 PMA lot of deja vu in this now. Posted a Google photo of this little place in Topping, VA, near a runway and boat storage maybe within the last year? Google: 2541 Greys Point Rd, Topping, VA 23169
Wonder how long this car has been for sale? I wish you only the best!
The photos of the rusted tool kit in the BaT auction should have triggered a discussion of water leaks. Now we know why the seller kept on about keeping it in a garage! And I think he also mentioned having upholstery work done while overseas. That might explain the odd blue color and the blue steering wheel in the BaT photos. Is that plastic dash cover still on the car?
jyl
Posts: 138
Joined: Jun 02, 2016 8:59 PM
Location: Oregon

Re: Waiting For My E28 Purchase

Post by jyl »

As best as I can reconstruct it, this is what happened:
- Car taken to restorer in 2019
- During respray, most seals/gaskets were replaced - but not all, and not that well, as we’ll see
- Seller got car back in late 2020, parked in his garage, car hardly ever left garage until it was loaded on transporter to come out West.
- On the trip, and after it got to Portland, car is drenched with rain for the first time since it went to restorer. Atmospheric river and all that PacNW goodness. Leaks spring forth. Lots of them.
- New owner (me) investigates and finds: 1) windshield and rear window were installed with new gaskets but no sealant, and evident glass-gasket gaps at lower corners. Those have now been sealed. 2) sunroof seals were not replaced. They now have been. 3) Trunk lid gasket new, but not properly glued down. I’ve glued it. 4) Tail light seals old, and probably have been letting water into trunk from pre-restoration time. New ones now installed. 5) License plate lights old and rubber missing. New ones now installed. 6) Worst of all - 1” hole in passenger footwell just forward of the jacking point. Arrgh - but on the bright side, no such issue on the driver’s side, and so far not finding other rust points elsewhere, although have yet to get car up in the air to examine closely. I’ve temporarily patched it (formed aluminum plates to fit both sides of footwell, lots of 3M sealant, bolt through plates to hold them to the panel). Later this winter, I’ll do a proper weld repair. 7) Carpet and underlayer sodden, but no evident rust on topside of floorboards. Underlayer removed on the front footwell area, to be replaced, carpet dried. Later this winter I’ll pull the carpet entirely for a thorough inspection, audio install, and probably Dynamat/similar. 8) Underhood gaskets also missing. Now replaced and/or on order. 9) All door seals new, but looks like body edge protectors are mixed - driver’s door edge protector has no “fur” while the others do. But I’ve pulled a couple door cards and don’t see any signs of leaking into car from there.

So, yeah, I’ve been obsessing over sources for gaskets and seals . . .

Yes, the dash cap is still there. I can ignore it for now, but am searching for a new dash or repair/recover options.
BMWCCA2 wrote: Nov 15, 2021 9:35 PM
I knew I'd seen it somewhere! Thanks for the detective work.
BMWCCA2 wrote: Oct 22, 2021 9:29 PMA lot of deja vu in this now. Posted a Google photo of this little place in Topping, VA, near a runway and boat storage maybe within the last year? Google: 2541 Greys Point Rd, Topping, VA 23169
Wonder how long this car has been for sale? I wish you only the best!
The photos of the rusted tool kit in the BaT auction should have triggered a discussion of water leaks. Now we know why the seller kept on about keeping it in a garage! And I think he also mentioned having upholstery work done while overseas. That might explain the odd blue color and the blue steering wheel in the BaT photos. Is that plastic dash cover still on the car?
tn535i
Posts: 5585
Joined: Jul 14, 2006 1:30 PM
Location: Middle Tennessee

Re: Waiting For My E28 Purchase

Post by tn535i »

An interesting bit of detail that may not apply to the e28, others may know. We have a very early 84 e30 2 door and the front windshield corners had some rust through and were more likely to rust I believe because they are formed corners with no details to deal with water and water gets trapped in the corner under the seal where you would never see it. By 1986 our 4 door e30 had a little detail added to those corners that would allow accumulated moisture to self drain out of the corner. The later design that self drains is clearly superior and BMW realized it but I have no idea if the e28/24 ever got that upgrade. My guess is an 84 car does not since the basic e28 pre-dates the e30 design.

I've never seen a 3,5 or 6 from the 80's era that had any sort of sealant applied at the factory. They finished the inside edges of the windshield gasket cavity very smoothly and then just the paint to rubber gasket forms the seal. When we repaired the rust and pitting on our 84 project car we used JB Weld in that area rather than softer body filler and went to the effort to get this smooth before paint. We had similar issue with the trunk gasket rolled up seam and again JB Weld worked great. I've only ever washed that car but never seen a leak in either area. And fwiw I think JB Weld is a good choice for any smaller area of pitted rust through.

On the e30 we had some floor pan rust through, not structural, and after grinding back we used epoxy with a mesh to cover those small areas then seal inside and out. You never see it anyway and those materials cannot rot. When it's not structural there are methods better than welding IMO as welding tends to generate a change in the metal all around it that leaves it even more prone to corrosion IME.
jyl
Posts: 138
Joined: Jun 02, 2016 8:59 PM
Location: Oregon

Re: Waiting For My E28 Purchase

Post by jyl »

I used to have an old Land Rover. Those have galvanized steel chassis. Land Rover owners were always injecting waxoyl or something into every chassis crevice and void, to slow rust. Is that a thing with E28s or with normal cars in general?
tn535i
Posts: 5585
Joined: Jul 14, 2006 1:30 PM
Location: Middle Tennessee

Re: Waiting For My E28 Purchase

Post by tn535i »

I don't know of anyone discussing something like that on the e28. Most cars are disposed before they rust out or if they rust out there are not worth keeping around anyway. It's just some cars like BMW's, Rover etc that people get passionate about and 'want' to keep long enough that dealing with rust becomes an issue. The 2002 was really bad to rust. Wise of course to focus on prevention rather than cure/repair. I find the best prevention to wash out underneath regularly to get rid of road salt or any grime that traps moisture.

fwiw my brother lives in Michigan and has an Olds from sometime in the 90's as a DD. It doesn't look bad on the outside but he recently discovered one of the rear trailing arm mount points has rusted free from the body. No easy repair if he even will.
jyl
Posts: 138
Joined: Jun 02, 2016 8:59 PM
Location: Oregon

Re: Waiting For My E28 Purchase

Post by jyl »

Followup. It’s been raining cats and dogs and I’ve been driving the E28 to work and leaving it parked in the rain. Pleased to report that a cursory check today showed the trunk is DRY and the floorboards are DRY! Yaay!

(To recap, I had to reglue trunk seal, replace tailight gaskets and license plate lights, have windshield and rear window caulked, replace sunroof “seals”, and temporarily patch a hole in front passenger floorboard by the jacking point, to achieve DRYness.)

I have a list of stuff to do, once I can get into the workshop space I’ve rented.
- New (stitched) dash to install, because the dash cap is bugging me; what “while I’m in there” work should I do while I have the dash out? I guess I should find out how well the A/C works? The heat/defrost work fine except there is squealing fan noise.
- New headlights and relays (from Daniel Stern) to install: thinking about the “octopus” kit for the rear lights later.
- Replace the (sodden, falling apart) foam underlayer I cut out from under the carpet in the floorboard area. I bought some closed cell “Ensolite” foam for this.
- Replace head unit, probably with a new Blaupunkt SQR (TBD); the current head unit is one of the Star Trek looking things that I can’t figure out.
- Install A/D/S plates in rear shelf, install new drivers (TBD) in front, install a modest amp (TBD) somewhere (maybe under front passenger seat?), install wiring for this plus for a future subwoofer (nothing ear-shaking, probably a small one under rear seat).
- Install a G.C. coilover conversion kit that I bought - maybe . . . not really decided yet; this isn’t going to be a track car or anything, but I do want to lower it a little and get the handling to be a bit firmer, flatter, less “wallowy”. Lowering springs and new shocks are the other option.
- Test-fit some 17” RC090’s I bought, to see how they fit and ride/drive; if I like it, I’ll have to refinish them; if I don’t, I’ll sell them and look for some 16” wheels. Need new tires, thinking 225s.
- Track down some minor things that aren’t working right (power mirrors, interior lights).
- Pull door cards and lube window regulators; the power windows work okay, just seem slow (I realize they are always slow, but mine seem especially so). Also, replace the one door handle trim that is black with the Pacific Blue trim piece I found.
- Recover and install some power E28 sport seats I bought - maybe, I have come to like the comfort seats, so maybe I’ll sell the sport seats rather than devote a bunch of money/effort to them. Either way, I want to look into adding seat heating.
- Find and install some rear headrests; hardly “necessary” but I think it’d be nice for the rearseat passengers.
- Fix a small ripped spot in the headliner at one corner of the sunroof; not sure how but I hope I can find some similar material and glue it on in a tidy-looking manner.
- Permanently fix the floorboard hole; even if I keep the patch which is working well, I want to rust-treat the metal around the hole.

I’m sure I’ll find more things that need addressing, but this list will keep me busy enough.
garageboy
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Re: Waiting For My E28 Purchase

Post by garageboy »

Hi... just caught up on this thread. Congratulations on your new-to-you E28!

In the interest of keeping leaks out, if you remove the door cards, you will have to break the vapor barrier on the doors. Be sure to remove them completely, including the residue remaining on the door. Then get some 3M #90 spray adhesive and some 6 mil plastic. Be sure to replace it after you are finished playing inside the doors. Cut it close to attach it and trim it after it's glued in place.
vinceg101
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Joined: Jun 20, 2007 2:40 AM
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Waiting For My E28 Purchase

Post by vinceg101 »

garageboy wrote: Jan 15, 2022 2:06 AM Hi... just caught up on this thread. Congratulations on your new-to-you E28!

In the interest of keeping leaks out, if you remove the door cards, you will have to break the vapor barrier on the doors. Be sure to remove them completely, including the residue remaining on the door. Then get some 3M #90 spray adhesive and some 6 mil plastic. Be sure to replace it after you are finished playing inside the doors. Cut it close to attach it and trim it after it's glued in place.
This stuff works pretty well also, and it's self adhesive. Two rows of it, overlapping, top down:
Image
jyl
Posts: 138
Joined: Jun 02, 2016 8:59 PM
Location: Oregon

Re: Waiting For My E28 Purchase

Post by jyl »

Thanks! I look forward to windows that roll up in less than geologic time.
Blue Shadow
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Location: SE PA

Re: Waiting For My E28 Purchase

Post by Blue Shadow »

jyl wrote: Jan 16, 2022 7:30 PM Thanks! I look forward to windows that roll up in less than geologic time.
That was what the E23 offered, faster windows.
Mike W.
Posts: 26872
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: California Whine Country

Re: Waiting For My E28 Purchase

Post by Mike W. »

tn535i wrote: Nov 17, 2021 2:05 PM

I've never seen a 3,5 or 6 from the 80's era that had any sort of sealant applied at the factory. They finished the inside edges of the windshield gasket cavity very smoothly and then just the paint to rubber gasket forms the seal.
I've done windshields on Es 12, 21, 23, 24 and 28 and as far as I could tell the original was kind of a gray putty filler between the body and the gasket. Non hardening, not really sticky, you can clean it out without too much trouble, but it kind of crumbles, you wouldn't think about reusing it. Nothing between the glass and the rubber. Quoting from an E12 factory manual,
Fill upper and lower lips of rubber frame with sealing compound uniformly all around.
jyl
Posts: 138
Joined: Jun 02, 2016 8:59 PM
Location: Oregon

Re: Waiting For My E28 Purchase

Post by jyl »

It seems to me that if using the aftermarket windshields, sealant might be needed even if not with the OEM glass?

My windshield was installed by the PO with big (1/8") gaps between gasket and glass at the lower corners. The glass shop I went to chose to inject sealant under much of the gasket, on glass and body side, both front and rear, which took care of the leaks.
jyl
Posts: 138
Joined: Jun 02, 2016 8:59 PM
Location: Oregon

Re: Waiting For My E28 Purchase

Post by jyl »

By the way, I've been watching Youtube videos about annually spraying the underside and inside chassis members with Fluidfilm or other lanolin products as a rust preventative. This sounds a little like what the Land Rover guys do with Waxoyl.

https://www.fluid-film.com/
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