So when in the 80's did the pickup truck memo come out?

General conversations about BMW E28s and the people who own them.
Post Reply
Mike W.
Posts: 26872
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: California Whine Country

So when in the 80's did the pickup truck memo come out?

Post by Mike W. »

Yeah I know, jousting at windmills as usual. But when did the memo come out that blue collar guys had to drive pickup trucks? It was sometime in the 80s, I know that, in the 70s guys didn't drive pickups, unless needed for work or a company truck. But somehow by the 90's it was de rigueur. By the 2000's I had a new guy working for me and actually just flat out told him, oh, and park your truck in the back lot. Yes, I was right, he did drive a pickup. :facepalm: I think I counted at one point and it was something like 37 out of 40 on our crew drove pickups. :shock: Me of course being one of the exceptions as longtime listeners might guess. And I'm relentlessly hands on, having hauled everything from engines to a 60' redwood fence to a love seat in trunks so I know they're not needed nearly as much as some claim or suggest. Now around 2005 I did transition into a desk job, but I was still managing blue collar guys, and that was long after the mandatory requirement went into effect.

Now in case anyone is wondering, yes, I have owned and even DD pickups. Daily was only a year or so, I'm a fast learner, but I did have it for several years. My seat time has been mostly at work, where you drive what they tell you to drive as long as it's their truck.
Blue Shadow
Posts: 10195
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: SE PA

Re: So when in the 80's did the pickup truck memo come out?

Post by Blue Shadow »

I was in line leaving the mill in 1986-7 one day at shift change. I was the only car in 30+ vehicles. All the rest were pickups. I believe the pickup in So Ga was the man's vehicle well before the middle of the 80s. As soon as the cars started getting downsized for fuel economy, castrated for lower emissions and the pickup was not part of the rules and regulations from the feds they became the primary vehicle for many.
Mike W.
Posts: 26872
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: California Whine Country

Re: So when in the 80's did the pickup truck memo come out?

Post by Mike W. »

Blue Shadow wrote: Oct 09, 2021 10:49 AM I was in line leaving the mill in 1986-7 one day at shift change. I was the only car in 30+ vehicles. All the rest were pickups. I believe the pickup in So Ga was the man's vehicle well before the middle of the 80s. As soon as the cars started getting downsized for fuel economy, castrated for lower emissions and the pickup was not part of the rules and regulations from the feds they became the primary vehicle for many.
You know, you might be on to something. I do recall how a friend of a friend who ran a racing power steering shop was getting into trucks in the late 70s because the "heavy duty" half ton, ie Ford F150 at the time, was 6,000 pound GVW which was nearly smog free.

And as a corollary I'm of the opinion that GM started it's downhill slide in the late 60s due to emissions and safety. Ford and Chrysler to a lesser extent, but some. I think they kind of said, we'll build them, but they're not going to like them, rather than putting a little more engineering into them. And then transitioned into light trucks since they were pretty unregulated. So, now it might be the 70s, but IMO GM stopped wanting to make good cars sometime back then. They of course made them, but mostly crappy. Some better than average slipped thru, kind of a stopped clock is still right twice a day, but overall they were pretty crappy. And today GM and Ford have all but given up on the passenger car market, they just don't sell. Except all those Camrys and Accords etc that do sell.
BMWCCA2
Posts: 4060
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: Central Virginia

Re: So when in the 80's did the pickup truck memo come out?

Post by BMWCCA2 »

Bought my first pickup—a 1984 Toyota long-bed DeLuxe 5sp 2WD—brand new, and still have it 37-years later. I bought the long-bed for its utility and the 2WD so I could load motorcycles in it without needing four people. Can't say how many BMWs it has hauled, including towing a 700 Convertible from coast-to-coast. Just turned 80k miles with nearly no maintenance. Never even did the normal stuff you do to a BMW like change brake fluid. It was easier to simply replace the hydraulics including master-cylinder, at the 30-year mark. I can't get away with that on a BMW even if I changed brake fluid every year! Killed a deer with it and fought the insurance company's interest in totaling it by asking them to come up with a comparable 30-year-old truck with 60k on it. Not pretty. Never was. Does what it's supposed to though. And when I first started looking, this little truck had more body and leg room for the driver than a full-size GMC product. With much better ride quality.
vinceg101
Posts: 4802
Joined: Jun 20, 2007 2:40 AM
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: So when in the 80's did the pickup truck memo come out?

Post by vinceg101 »

I think the larger, related question is:

When did pickup trucks turn into luxury vehicles?

Gone are the utility trucks of the past with simple seats and interiors where you were lucky to could get an automatic transmission. Nowadays even a "basic" F150 interior looks like a high end Mercedes: 8 way heated & massaging power seats, 15 cameras, high-fidelity sound system, and leather as far as the eye can see.
Mike W.
Posts: 26872
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: California Whine Country

Re: So when in the 80's did the pickup truck memo come out?

Post by Mike W. »

vinceg101 wrote: Oct 11, 2021 2:45 AM I think the larger, related question is:

When did pickup trucks turn into luxury vehicles?

Gone are the utility trucks of the past with simple seats and interiors where you were lucky to could get an automatic transmission. Nowadays even a "basic" F150 interior looks like a high end Mercedes: 8 way heated & massaging power seats, 15 cameras, high-fidelity sound system, and leather as far as the eye can see.
You mean you can't hose them out anymore? WTF! Don't get me started...

I remember when I first saw some guy with power running boards on a pickup. :facepalm: I barely contained myself from laughing out loud since he was half my age and at least a head taller. But I sure would have been embarrassed. No shame I guess.
Blue Shadow
Posts: 10195
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: SE PA

Re: So when in the 80's did the pickup truck memo come out?

Post by Blue Shadow »

vinceg101 wrote: Oct 11, 2021 2:45 AM I think the larger, related question is:

When did pickup trucks turn into luxury vehicles?
Shortly after momma borrowed her hubbies truck and found out that she was not disrespected at the 4-way stop.


Sitting up high, able to see and to look down on johnny hot rod who would normally ignore her right-of-way and leave the stop sign first, but not when she was in the truck and she was hooked. Big auto got wind of this and started throwing everything they could in the way of options into the truck line to jack up the profits. By this time suspensions had gotten better, too and trucks would ride a bit better not quite what they can be today but better than the buckboard they used to be without a load in them.
vinceg101
Posts: 4802
Joined: Jun 20, 2007 2:40 AM
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: So when in the 80's did the pickup truck memo come out?

Post by vinceg101 »

Blue Shadow wrote: Oct 11, 2021 7:01 AM
vinceg101 wrote: Oct 11, 2021 2:45 AM I think the larger, related question is:

When did pickup trucks turn into luxury vehicles?
Shortly after momma borrowed her hubbies truck and found out that she was not disrespected at the 4-way stop.


Sitting up high, able to see and to look down on johnny hot rod who would normally ignore her right-of-way and leave the stop sign first, but not when she was in the truck and she was hooked. Big auto got wind of this and started throwing everything they could in the way of options into the truck line to jack up the profits. By this time suspensions had gotten better, too and trucks would ride a bit better not quite what they can be today but better than the buckboard they used to be without a load in them.
I can't argue with that (my 5'-0" sister drives a new F250 4x4 Crew Cab, before that a Suburban as evidence).
I guess it also correlates with the rise of the SUV as an everyday grocery-getter by millions of Soccer Moms. Those luxury appointments logically found their way over into the "work" truck lineup.

I remember watching King of The Hill way back when and the subject of pick-up trucks was always mixed into each episode (it perpetuated the stereotype that everyone in Texas drives a PU). The fact that Hank Hill was still driving a compact pickup (I guess it resembled a Ranger the way it was drawn) and that his friends were all driving larger and even monster PU's made Hank the subject of ridicule. I remember the episode when he finally gave in and bought a full sized PU, not because he really wanted one but out of public shaming.
Blue Shadow
Posts: 10195
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: SE PA

Re: So when in the 80's did the pickup truck memo come out?

Post by Blue Shadow »

Well times have changed. Now everyone is buying new monster trucks. Seems a bit higher up that a car was not enough. Look at the height of the seat bottom in most pickups today, a step ladder away even for the tallest folks.

This might be do to the fact that moms on station wagons is now moms in suvs and those in pickups want to be higher up than whatever mom is driving.

I just don't understand the inconvenience of the height of new pickups. Can't reach over the sides into the bed, gotta lift shit to get it into the bed with the tailgate down and gotta climb a few steps up to get into the damn thing. I want my butt to be about the height of the seat bottom when I open the driver's door so I can just slide in. Now I understand the low sport car and I've outgrown the desire to pop out of little cars but I don't understand the need to climb so high to get into a current model pickup truck.

But then the Chinese like the full front grill on the new 4er and those ugly Lexi and Audis, again at a loss as to why.
gadget73
Posts: 1176
Joined: Nov 22, 2017 10:30 PM
Location: New Jersey

Re: So when in the 80's did the pickup truck memo come out?

Post by gadget73 »

You can still get a fairly basic model, but its in contractor special packaging. Usually white, steel wheels, ugly black bumpers, rubber floors, basic cloth seats. Its still going to be a fairly loaded vehicle compared to something from the 80s but its nowhere near the level of fancy that can be ordered.

I'm not real opposed to this, I do not fetishize stripped down "manly man" vehicles with no options like some people do. I do wish they weren't so damn tall though.
vinceg101
Posts: 4802
Joined: Jun 20, 2007 2:40 AM
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: So when in the 80's did the pickup truck memo come out?

Post by vinceg101 »

Height. Yes, too tall for practicality.
Look at the rash of tailgate modification they're designing into them just so folks can reach into or get into the beds.
Talk about having to engineer a solution to a design flaw of their own making.
Blue Shadow
Posts: 10195
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: SE PA

Re: So when in the 80's did the pickup truck memo come out?

Post by Blue Shadow »

vinceg101 wrote: Oct 11, 2021 5:55 PM Height. Yes, too tall for practicality.
Talk about having to engineer a solution to a design flaw of their own making.
QFT

And a few years ago the two shortest guys in the neighborhood had the two biggest trucks. One an F250 cause he was embarassed when he loaded his 150 with the sand, crushed rock and finally pavers to do his rear patio, a once per house operation...got a big truck to use daily to haul his two young boys. The other had a slightly lifted, big tired, Chevy 1500.
gadget73
Posts: 1176
Joined: Nov 22, 2017 10:30 PM
Location: New Jersey

Re: So when in the 80's did the pickup truck memo come out?

Post by gadget73 »

Over the weekend I happened to pop into an Aldi. There was a massively lifted truck there, door sills at the average person's chin level. I watched the adult passenger being boosted into the truck by someone I'd guess at maybe 14 years old. The teenager then had to be helped into the truck by the person in the passenger seat. The truck had massive bull horns strapped to the roof, door panels made of some flavor of animal skin that still had the fur, the giant 'Murica flag in the bed, and the tacky expected 'buy 'Murican' type graphic on the tailgate.

In New Jersey. At a German grocery store.

I couldn't help but laugh at just how silly this all looked.
vinceg101
Posts: 4802
Joined: Jun 20, 2007 2:40 AM
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: So when in the 80's did the pickup truck memo come out?

Post by vinceg101 »

gadget73 wrote: Oct 12, 2021 9:04 AMIn New Jersey. At a German grocery store.
I couldn't help but laugh at just how silly this all looked.
:laugh: Indeed, that's hysterical.

They might have been from Cumberland County, I had a college friend move down to Millville and he could have sworn he moved to Kentucky. He said he'd never seen so many Confederate flags on pick-up trucks in his life before; it weirded him out how redneck they all were down there. (Of course this was when they were proposing NJ Motorsports Park and having it host NASCAR, so all those rednecks were happy as pig in sh*t).

Yes, in New Jersey, less than 50 miles from downtown Philadelphia.
gadget73
Posts: 1176
Joined: Nov 22, 2017 10:30 PM
Location: New Jersey

Re: So when in the 80's did the pickup truck memo come out?

Post by gadget73 »

I was actually in Camden county. I hail from a little further south where I'd be less surprised to see that sort of silliness, though we don't have an Aldi. Cumberland Co is just south of me, and it is pretty redneck but Salem Co ain't much better. We have a rodeo, they have the Motorsports park.
wkohler
Posts: 50921
Joined: Oct 05, 2006 11:04 PM
Location: Phönix, Arizona, USA
Contact:

Re: So when in the 80's did the pickup truck memo come out?

Post by wkohler »

The original question basically can be answered looking at how many people get into hot rodding these days. After "muscle cars" basically died and trucks still had the architecture for big motors and fewer emissions controls, they became a more attractive way to get power. A lot less packaging issues too for activities. I think they also started seeing a higher take rate for higher trim levels. I know that by the end of the square body trucks, I saw a lot more Silverados with two-tone paint schemes than beige Custom Deluxes with a rubber mat and vinyl seats. Somehow that turned into the Ford F-series being the best-selling vehicle in the US.

Trucks look like caricatures of themselves these days and I think the GM offerings are the most offensive-looking. People laughed when Ford put a step in the tailgate then GM said "hold my beer" while they created some Lemon-Law-buyback-waiting-to-happen with an escalator and a karaoke machine. I think when it comes to the pricing, vehicles like the Escalade, the Denali-trimmed Yukons and the Navagator were basically the beginning of it from an OEM level in the late 1990s. People have always been customizing their stuff with luxury features. Suburbans and the like with the conversion-van treatment were
de rigueur once vans started to fall out of fashion and it was so popular, there was a market. But then Mercedes had just released their ML, Lexus rebadged a Land Cruiser and the Range Rover got more and more luxurious. GM saw an opportunity there. When you think about it, it's kinda amazing how long it actually took before throwing every feature ever considered at a truck. Those vehicles then spawned actual trucks and why not? Whatever they developed to turn a Tahoe into a Cadillac could be put on a Silverado, Suburban or an Avalanche for basically free and then more profit. People went nuts for them and still do despite fuel prices being higher now than they were when people were ditching their trucks for fuel-efficient cars. The manufacturers push the more expensive vehicles because of the higher profit margin and they make it completely unattractive and difficult to order a regular cab short bed 2wd work truck. Even those are mostly crew cab configurations these days.

One thing I found kinda interesting was recently working at an event at a super high-end restaurant here in town. The women in attendance are affluent and there was a huge selection in the parking lot of all sorts of high-end vehicles. About 80-85% of the vehicles in attendance were some sort of unibody-construction SUV - lots of Cayennes, couple Bentaygas, a gaggle of Range Rovers, etc and then there were several Escalades. It was amazing to me just how from the sounds the doors make to the sounds the car makes reversing out of a parking space and changing from reverse to drive just how unrefined they were. Obviously, of the bunch, they were the only body-on-frame vehicles there but base price on one of these is over $75k and nothing there was the base model. Blows me away.

I miss the 90s trucks and if you look at Bring-A-Trailer, I'm not alone. Not completely sparse and they were getting the hang of fuel injection and emissions trade-offs. Most of the offerings could be driven without having to brush chunks of the dashboard off your lap at the end of the day and in many cases the paint stayed mostly attached. All great features. I also appreciated the designs of the Japanese trucks as well in the '80s and most of the 1990s and then things just went totally wrong with the styling - the most important truck feature - for basically everything they made.

I've never owned a truck and if I did, I'm sure I'd do the truck thing completely wrong with an El Camino or a Syclone. The biggest issue I have is that it would be an infrequently-used vehicle that I'd have to store somewhere, pass emissions testing with (for the right truck, could do collectors insurance and skip that but then it has to be inside) and insure. I've gotten along fine for the most part with my wagons and occasionally amaze real truck people with what I'm able to haul in a touring.
gadget73
Posts: 1176
Joined: Nov 22, 2017 10:30 PM
Location: New Jersey

Re: So when in the 80's did the pickup truck memo come out?

Post by gadget73 »

When it was finally time to retire my S10 I was actually sort of looking for an El Camino. They're all either stupidly priced, rotted, or both. Same with S10's. I ended up with a full size because the price was right. It was my late uncle's truck and my aunt made me a good deal on it. Its really bigger than I'd prefer but it was mostly a case of being the nicest condition thing I could find for my money.

Its the contractor trim, rubber floor, ugly bumper, steel wheels model too. I like the rubber floor, useful when I launch the boat and get back in with wet, sandy feet. I'd have gone for the nicer bumpers and wheels though.
Post Reply