My cars are too old...

General conversations about BMW E28s and the people who own them.
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stuartinmn
Posts: 9380
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: Minneapolis

My cars are too old...

Post by stuartinmn »

I went out to go to the store in my 325iX today, turned the key, and it fired once and then quit. After that, it would just crank without firing at all. It has spark, so that means it's most likely not getting fuel. I tried replacing the fuel pump and main relays with spares and that didn’t help, and then tried jumpering the terminals on the fuel pump relay to force 12 volts to the pump and that didn’t help either, so most likely the fuel pump has given up the ship.

I called my usual independent BMW repair shop to make an appointment, but it turns out that since the last time I was there they’ve changed their policy for working on older cars…since it’s a 1988 it’s considered a ‘classic’, and they will only accept a certain number of older cars in the shop at a time. Their reason for the new policy is that parts for older cars can be hard to get, so they may tie up shop space while they’re waiting for the parts to arrive (although in this case, assuming it is the fuel pump obviously they're still readily available.) As a result there’s a waiting list, and the soonest they would be able to get me in is sometime in January. Since this is my daily driver in the winter while the M535i is in storage, obviously that’s not going to work. It was pretty disappointing; I've been using this shop for 20 years and have always been satisfied with their service, but I guess I'll have to go elsewhere from now on. I did send a letter to the owner to let him know I wasn't happy with the policy change, and reminded him he was losing a customer that's given him a lot of business over the years.

There happens to be a one man shop in my neighborhood that specializes in Saabs (that may be a niche market, but with all the Scandinavian people here in Minnesota there are still a surprising number of them on the road. :) ) I've noticed he also works on the occasional older BMW, so I walked over to talk to him this afternoon and he said he could get me in tomorrow. We'll see how it goes - if I'm happy with his work it will certainly be more convenient to bring my business there, since he's literally just one block away.

I suppose eventually I'm going to be like a guy trying to get his Model T fixed at the Ford dealership.
Adam W in MN
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Re: My cars are too old...

Post by Adam W in MN »

Hey Stuart, thanks for sharing. I can't help but feel like the world rapidly passed these 80's BMW's by and now they are really really old, whether those of us on this board realize it or not. From the early 2000's when they were easy to find and plentiful to now where people with mini crossovers look at you with disdain, I can't help feeling like the last 15 years snuck past. And I still feel like these 80's BMW's should be exciting and relevant, and I do get a lot of thumbs up when driving, but I am getting fearful about parts availability. Luckily Tony at Motorwerks BMW took good care of me with my E12 and E28 and they were patient with the wait for parts.
stuartinmn
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Re: My cars are too old...

Post by stuartinmn »

The shop I was referring to is Eurotech, up in New Brighton. The service writer I talked to is new there and didn't know who I was; after he talked to his boss and found out my history there he called me back to apologize, and said they could get me in next week. However, by then I'd already set up an appointment with the Saab guy down the street. I may go back to them in the future, but for now I'll see how things go with this new guy.

It has gotten to the point where virtually every day I get a thumbs up from someone on the street when I'm driving either car. It always strikes me funny, but then I remember how old they are.
Mdreamer
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Location: Atlanta, Georgia

Re: My cars are too old...

Post by Mdreamer »

I feel your frustration! Lately, it has been very hard to find anyone besides my old friends to even look at my car for the most basic concerns. As a result, my primary shop is damn near 40 miles from my house. Meanwhile, I am given thumbs up by some, strange looks by most (especially if I am blowing past them), and looks of disdain by a few whenever I am driving here or there. A lot of people who are 30 and younger tell me it is the first one they've ever seen in person, and a lot of people 60 or older say it reminds them of days gone by for any number of associations.

When I was coming up, my father used to drive an old car he had that was 25-30 years old and a lot of people in our community knew him for it. I am surprised to see that I have kind of turned into him by doing the same thing--with the exception being my driving his car that was new in his stable 36 years later.
stuartinmn
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Location: Minneapolis

Re: My cars are too old...

Post by stuartinmn »

So my M535i is 35 years old. It doesn't seem all that old to me now, but if I had been driving a 35 year old car back when I first got my license at age 16, it would have been a 1937 model year. :)

I can remember when I was around ten years old, there was an old duffer in my town who was still driving around in a Model A Ford; it would have been about 35 years old at the time too.
Mdreamer
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Re: My cars are too old...

Post by Mdreamer »

stuartinmn wrote: Sep 23, 2021 10:49 PM I can remember when I was around ten years old, there was an old duffer in my town who was still driving around in a Model A Ford; it would have been about 35 years old at the time too.
When you put it like that... JEEZ!!! :shock:
gray635
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Re: My cars are too old...

Post by gray635 »

I drive 2.5 hours, through horrible Atlanta traffic, to take my old BMWs to Alan Kidson and Michael Spooner at German Car Repair. Best shop for old BMWs that I've found in about 35 years of fooling around with these things. Alan has a fleet of loaners so I drive back home and then drive back up to pick up my car when it's finished. The time and trouble are worth it to have someone who actually knows what they are doing work on my cars.

Don't you just love the old car hobby! :laugh:
Mike W.
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Re: My cars are too old...

Post by Mike W. »

January??? Sounds to me like they don't want to work on it at all and just don't have the balls to tell you so. While the ix is a bit of an odd bird being AWD, still what, 95% or 99% is pretty much basic E30 which parts are widely available for. My guess is the owner or his mechanics are afraid of anything that isn't OBDII and have lost (or never acquired) troubleshooting skills. I think the parts excuse is just a red herring and not wanting to outright refuse to work on it. Ironically I have heard of a number of cars made this century that have sat for weeks waiting for parts, including my son's Chevy Tahoe which sat the local dealer for 3-4 weeks. And still didn't run well afterwards.

It's an odd business, there's some charlatans, some that guild the lily and change anything that might remotely be at fault, some honest and hardworking, some incompetent, but not a whole lot of them get rich, either mechanics or shop owners.
Foonfer
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Location: New York, NY

Re: My cars are too old...

Post by Foonfer »

...aaaand that's one of the reasons why I started this thread about reputable shops in the NYC area:

https://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=156878

More and more I am convinced there should be a similar database for every Metro area in the US. Our cars are old, and not everyone has the time, space, skills, tools, resources or patience to take care of them ourselves.

@Beamters, could this perhaps be the genesis of a new space in the Forum?
wkohler
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Re: My cars are too old...

Post by wkohler »

This is why I started doing what I'm doing. I have been getting customers referred to me from other shops that just don't want to work on older cars anymore. Things have been more difficult with parts and that's either something where Covid was a convenient cover-story or it was happening and the Covid delays just exacerbated the issue. I will say that there was a time when I could order any of the basic things for an E28 and have them either that day or next, maybe 2 days. Now, it's actually rare to have that situation.

Shops here and everywhere I'm sure are having a tough time getting employees and the ones they do have generally aren't too well-versed with pre OBD-II stuff. Obviously there are a few but the fewer old cars the shops take in, the lesser experience that can be built.

I only work on the older stuff (have done a couple E46s and E39s, but not a regular thing) and I have a pretty full calendar as I like to take on larger projects, but I do always do what I can to get a simpler job in and out.

I hope it's a simple issue with the iX and you're back on the road soon!
stuartinmn
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Location: Minneapolis

Re: My cars are too old...

Post by stuartinmn »

There's a young mechanic at that shop I have been going to who really likes working on the older cars - I've talked to him a few times, and he's always been excited when he sees one of mine coming in and he gets to work on it. However, since the majority of the shop's business is repairing late model cars I understand why they want to concentrate on that part of the market to keep their profit margins up - they can churn them in and out quickly. Still, it's frustrating. When I was younger and my health was better I had the energy and dexterity to take care of these sorts of thing myself, but nowadays I'm pretty much limited to minor repairs.
Bonsaibacker
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Re: My cars are too old...

Post by Bonsaibacker »

When I was in high school I drove a car that was 20 years old and I thought it was ancient. Funny how my perspective has changed as I have grown older. I look at this chassis and although I see something "classic", it doesn't seem old or disconnected to me yet a kid gave me a thumbs up at the gas station on Saturday and said "That is an old car!". Punk.

I am guessing the shop is trying to be competitive and cull out the challenges to their business. It is a shame that they turned their back on a long time customer but I'd bet this will be a frequent topic on here moving forward. It is an "evolving" world and change is constant...
austin8753
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Joined: May 16, 2010 1:37 AM
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA

Re: My cars are too old...

Post by austin8753 »

wkohler wrote: Sep 24, 2021 12:30 AM This is why I started doing what I'm doing. I have been getting customers referred to me from other shops that just don't want to work on older cars anymore. Things have been more difficult with parts and that's either something where Covid was a convenient cover-story or it was happening and the Covid delays just exacerbated the issue. I will say that there was a time when I could order any of the basic things for an E28 and have them either that day or next, maybe 2 days. Now, it's actually rare to have that situation.

Shops here and everywhere I'm sure are having a tough time getting employees and the ones they do have generally aren't too well-versed with pre OBD-II stuff. Obviously there are a few but the fewer old cars the shops take in, the lesser experience that can be built.

I only work on the older stuff (have done a couple E46s and E39s, but not a regular thing) and I have a pretty full calendar as I like to take on larger projects, but I do always do what I can to get a simpler job in and out.

I hope it's a simple issue with the iX and you're back on the road soon!
came to say basically all this. Chris and i are usually on the same page.

a friend of mine runs a shop on the east side and is desperately looking for guys who have some knowledge of the old cars. the guys they have, basically can only do repairs if they have Alldata and a scan tool. anything that requires critical thinking (ie: "old" car experience) is a hard pass for them. kinda crazy that this is what the world has come to now.
dsmith
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Location: Charleston, SC

Re: My cars are too old...

Post by dsmith »

You guys are making me feel old. I don’t see this situation, since I don’t let other people work on my cars that are out of warranty and my out of warranty cars are over 30 yrs old!

Actually, I sold my shop in 2006. I wasn’t interested in dealing with CANBUS issues.
Adam W in MN
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Re: My cars are too old...

Post by Adam W in MN »

I will say that when I had the E12 M535i at Motorwerks BMW for the big engine reseal this year, when I got ready to pay the hefty bill, the service advisor had this story to share with me. The young tech they had pitching in on the work said that of all the cars they got to work on, an E36 M3 racecar with an s50b32, newer crazy fast M cars with turbos, etc he said "this E12 is by far my favorite to drive" (he took it on a test drive when the motor was back together). And he is younger than my E12 by a good 10 years!

That made me feel great to hear, and there may be hope for the younger generation of techs.
austin8753
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Joined: May 16, 2010 1:37 AM
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Re: My cars are too old...

Post by austin8753 »

Adam W in MN wrote: Sep 24, 2021 8:41 PM I will say that when I had the E12 M535i at Motorwerks BMW for the big engine reseal this year, when I got ready to pay the hefty bill, the service advisor had this story to share with me. The young tech they had pitching in on the work said that of all the cars they got to work on, an E36 M3 racecar with an s50b32, newer crazy fast M cars with turbos, etc he said "this E12 is by far my favorite to drive" (he took it on a test drive when the motor was back together). And he is younger than my E12 by a good 10 years!

That made me feel great to hear, and there may be hope for the younger generation of techs.
sounds like something i would say, and i'm not even 30. zero interest in any of the new forced induction BMW stuff. yaaaaaaaawn
e12euro
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Re: My cars are too old...

Post by e12euro »

stuartinmn wrote: Sep 23, 2021 6:07 PM I went out to go to the store in my 325iX today, turned the key, and it fired once and then quit. After that, it would just crank without firing at all. It has spark, so that means it's most likely not getting fuel. I tried replacing the fuel pump and main relays with spares and that didn’t help, and then tried jumpering the terminals on the fuel pump relay to force 12 volts to the pump and that didn’t help either, so most likely the fuel pump has given up the ship.

I called my usual independent BMW repair shop to make an appointment, but it turns out that since the last time I was there they’ve changed their policy for working on older cars…since it’s a 1988 it’s considered a ‘classic’, and they will only accept a certain number of older cars in the shop at a time. Their reason for the new policy is that parts for older cars can be hard to get, so they may tie up shop space while they’re waiting for the parts to arrive (although in this case, assuming it is the fuel pump obviously they're still readily available.) As a result there’s a waiting list, and the soonest they would be able to get me in is sometime in January. Since this is my daily driver in the winter while the M535i is in storage, obviously that’s not going to work. It was pretty disappointing; I've been using this shop for 20 years and have always been satisfied with their service, but I guess I'll have to go elsewhere from now on. I did send a letter to the owner to let him know I wasn't happy with the policy change, and reminded him he was losing a customer that's given him a lot of business over the years.

There happens to be a one man shop in my neighborhood that specializes in Saabs (that may be a niche market, but with all the Scandinavian people here in Minnesota there are still a surprising number of them on the road. :) ) I've noticed he also works on the occasional older BMW, so I walked over to talk to him this afternoon and he said he could get me in tomorrow. We'll see how it goes - if I'm happy with his work it will certainly be more convenient to bring my business there, since he's literally just one block away.

I suppose eventually I'm going to be like a guy trying to get his Model T fixed at the Ford dealership.
It does sound like the fuel pump has expired. It has happened to me a couple of times in the last 30 years.Sometimes they give a bit of warning, hesitant starting, but for the most part just die. Could you change it youself?
RossDinan6
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Re: My cars are too old...

Post by RossDinan6 »

I don't daily drive my 6. I need more space, as in service van for my job. If I were in the OPs position, I think I'd keep a cheap appliance car around for situations like this. It is an extra expense, obviously, but avoids this situation. I have a visceral hate for appliance cars, but.... Park a cheap hondatoyotakiahundai out in the street for times it is needed. Do what maintenance to it necessary to keep it reliable. Enjoy parking it when the good daily is back on the road.
stuartinmn
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Re: My cars are too old...

Post by stuartinmn »

e12euro wrote: Sep 25, 2021 2:34 PM
It does sound like the fuel pump has expired. It has happened to me a couple of times in the last 30 years.Sometimes they give a bit of warning, hesitant starting, but for the most part just die. Could you change it youself?
The car is already at the shop. Due to health issues, unfortunately I'm not in a position for doing any major wrenching anymore.
RossDinan6 wrote: Sep 25, 2021 5:10 PM If I were in the OPs position, I think I'd keep a cheap appliance car around for situations like this. It is an extra expense, obviously, but avoids this situation.
The 325iX is essentially my cheap appliance, although it mainly serves as my winter car (can't beat that all wheel drive.) When there isn't snow on the ground I drive my M535i.
wkohler
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Re: My cars are too old...

Post by wkohler »

It’s not a lot of fun replacing a pump on an E30 coupe anyway. If it was a sedan or convertible I’d say go for it but coupe I wouldn’t recommend for someone with limited physical abilities.
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