Didn't know these existed! Am I making a mistake?

General conversations about BMW E28s and the people who own them.
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knunger
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Location: Tucson,AZ.

Didn't know these existed! Am I making a mistake?

Post by knunger »

Via a tip from bigcoupe.com, I bought these on eBay. I am sure I am not groundbreaking here but I am wondering if I am making a mistake (I can't see how), but I'm sure I'll find out:

ImageDSCN0588 by Kim Unger, on Flickr

ImageDSCN0587 by Kim Unger, on Flickr
RonW
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Re: Didn't know these existed! Am I making a mistake?

Post by RonW »

knunger wrote: Oct 31, 2020 11:31 PM Via a tip from bigcoupe.com, I bought these on eBay. I am sure I am not groundbreaking here
You're not - they go between the supply and the load, not between the load and ground.
knunger wrote: Oct 31, 2020 11:31 PMbut I am wondering if I am making a mistake (I can't see how), but I'm sure I'll find out:

ImageDSCN0588 by Kim Unger, on Flickr

ImageDSCN0587 by Kim Unger, on Flickr
I tried something like that a long time ago, and it was a mistake then, for two reasons:
  1. When the fuses overheated they got shorter, probably because some solder inside them melted. This made the prongs in the fusebox not grip them tightly anymore. I don't know if that's been fixed.
  2. Unlike the old ceramic fuses, these aren't color coded. They all look the same, so it's hard to tell at a glance which fuses are which voltage.
Blue Shadow
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Re: Didn't know these existed! Am I making a mistake?

Post by Blue Shadow »

RonW wrote: Nov 01, 2020 1:00 AM Unlike the old ceramic fuses, these aren't color coded. They all look the same, so it's hard to tell at a glance which fuses are which voltage.
Of course, you meant amperage, not voltage.
stuartinmn
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Re: Didn't know these existed! Am I making a mistake?

Post by stuartinmn »

Those look like the plain old glass fuses used in US automotive applications from the dawn of time through the 1970s or so. They're meant to go in a different type of fuse clip than what our cars use so I'd be concerned about being able to get a good contact.

Image
Mike W.
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Re: Didn't know these existed! Am I making a mistake?

Post by Mike W. »

knunger wrote: Oct 31, 2020 11:31 PM Via a tip from bigcoupe.com, I bought these on eBay. I am sure I am not groundbreaking here but I am wondering if I am making a mistake (I can't see how), but I'm sure I'll find out:
Yes you're making a mistake. They are GBC fuses intended for our cars, but a better idea than execution. They might work on the 8A circuits, but on 16 and 25 applications the solder inside the fuse melts. The fuse doesn't blow per say as the actual fusible link remains intact, but the solder that connects the ends to the fuse link melts, effectively blowing the fuse.
knunger
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Re: Didn't know these existed! Am I making a mistake?

Post by knunger »

RonW wrote: Nov 01, 2020 1:00 AM You're not - they go between the supply and the load, not between the load and ground.
Good one RonW! You caught me with my pants down right there! (I've never met the man, but have read his every post. To those who know him, was he goofing me or was he dead serious about the 'groundbreaking'?).

OK, I've seen a few responses from highly respected members here and I don't want y'all to think I'm arguing, but I just want to understand.+
RonW wrote: Nov 01, 2020 1:00 AM Unlike the old ceramic fuses, these aren't color coded. They all look the same, so it's hard to tell at a glance which fuses are which voltage.
That is absolutely true. I highlighted them all and my spares with magic marker then wiping off the excess.
stuartinmn wrote: Nov 01, 2020 11:37 AM Those look like the plain old glass fuses used in US automotive applications from the dawn of time through the 1970s or so. They're meant to go in a different type of fuse clip than what our cars use so I'd be concerned about being able to get a good contact.
Well, for whatever reason, these Buss GBC fuses have conical ends, not the flattops that currently live in all three of my VOMs as well as my DVM.

ImageDSCN0589 by Kim Unger, on Flickr

Mike W. wrote: Nov 01, 2020 12:31 PM Yes you're making a mistake. They are GBC fuses intended for our cars, but a better idea than execution. They might work on the 8A circuits, but on 16 and 25 applications the solder inside the fuse melts. The fuse doesn't blow per say as the actual fusible link remains intact, but the solder that connects the ends to the fuse link melts, effectively blowing the fuse.
Here's the one that confuses me (no pun intended)!
So, everytime I needed to buy a fuse, for the first 45 years of my life, for whatever reason, I went to the hardware store and bought Buss fuses of whatever size and always in the yellow slide-open box. From milliAmps for my VOM to megaAmp for our swamp box coolers.
So, I don't understand how Buss made a billion fuses that don't work properly? Mike, don't get me wrong here as I thoroughly respect your expertise but can you help explain this to me?

I wish I had a $300 30A variable DC power supply to test these 99 cent fuses. Hey CEK, don't you have this exactly? I'll happily send you a dozen fuses so you tall tell me when they Blow!!
Mike W.
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Re: Didn't know these existed! Am I making a mistake?

Post by Mike W. »

knunger wrote: Nov 01, 2020 7:37 PM
Mike W. wrote: Nov 01, 2020 12:31 PM Yes you're making a mistake. They are GBC fuses intended for our cars, but a better idea than execution. They might work on the 8A circuits, but on 16 and 25 applications the solder inside the fuse melts. The fuse doesn't blow per say as the actual fusible link remains intact, but the solder that connects the ends to the fuse link melts, effectively blowing the fuse.
Here's the one that confuses me (no pun intended)!
So, everytime I needed to buy a fuse, for the first 45 years of my life, for whatever reason, I went to the hardware store and bought Buss fuses of whatever size and always in the yellow slide-open box. From milliAmps for my VOM to megaAmp for our swamp box coolers.
So, I don't understand how Buss made a billion fuses that don't work properly? Mike, don't get me wrong here as I thoroughly respect your expertise but can you help explain this to me?

I wish I had a $300 30A variable DC power supply to test these 99 cent fuses. Hey CEK, don't you have this exactly? I'll happily send you a dozen fuses so you tall tell me when they Blow!!
Yes, Buss is a standard, I've used many of their products with satisfactory results. I thought the same thing you did when I first ran across them. No, I can't explain why these fail and the standard ones used in millions of US cars don't. And it's possible they've revised them since I used them ~20 years ago, but the solder inside melting was a multiple occurrence, not just once. And of course, once burned (ok, more than once technically) twice shy, I haven't used them since.
knunger
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Re: Didn't know these existed! Am I making a mistake?

Post by knunger »

Thank you Mike for your considerate reply. Since my car is otherwise running perfectly I'll pull the GBCs and reinstall the neanderthals. I've reached out to a couple of budds with the right equipment to test these so I can sleep at night if I make the change permanently. CHARLIE are you following this?.

I am all about how good I look, so a beautiful fuse box is very important to me!!

Thanks again Mike
Blue Shadow
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Re: Didn't know these existed! Am I making a mistake?

Post by Blue Shadow »

knunger wrote: Nov 01, 2020 10:26 PM
I am all about how good I look, so a beautiful fuse box is very important to me!!

glad you like the beautiful fuse box because that is were these fuses belong, stored away somewhere just in case of an emergency that uses up the 4 extra ceramic/copper fuses in the fuse box and the extra ceramic/copper fuses in the tool kit. Once those are exhausted and you are still in need maybe these Buss GBCs can fill in for the short time it takes to find, order and receive the correct fuses.

We have enough electrical issues to not want to add fuse failure, not blown but open circuit from melted internal solder to the list of things to check.

I like fuse boxes too, and have maybe 25 of them. Any GBC fuses I have are in those boxes.
RetiredDoc
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Re: Didn't know these existed! Am I making a mistake?

Post by RetiredDoc »

As an old British car enthusiast I remember my 1960s British cars having these glass fuses. They were usually called Lucas fuses by owners of Healeys, MGs, Jaguars, and such.

The ceramic fuses with the exposed metal links, like the ones in old BMWs, were called Bosch fuses.

Lucas or Bosch fuses were how you asked for them in the foreign car parts stores.
garageboy
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Re: Didn't know these existed! Am I making a mistake?

Post by garageboy »

RetiredDoc wrote: Nov 03, 2020 12:34 AMLucas or Bosch fuses were how you asked for them in the foreign car parts stores.
And one's IQ could immediately be determined by which one they asked for! :rofl:

And one COULD theoretically mark the glass with some color to distinguish 8 from 16 and 25... if you had WAY too much time on your hands.
craigb93
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Re: Didn't know these existed! Am I making a mistake?

Post by craigb93 »

The way this particular fuse in made with the solder 'bullet' ends added is the weak point of a perfectly good fuse. The old originals had all metal steel ends and no solder that could take a lot more heat in the case of a loose connection than the lead bullet ends.

My own experience is excellent with using the Buss GBC fuses. Only lost one in 15 years(recently). I tried to buy replacements like the ones OP pictured but the link wasn't good at the time and I gave up.

A trick I use with the BMW design is to supplement the fuse clip tension with the appropriate size O-ring. Buy an assortment of the green AC O-rings and pick one. So long as the clip tension is maintained, any kind of fuse will only blow from over-current, not heat. The O-rings are good for 4-5 years at least. Remember the old adage about 'Roll the fuses' with every tune-up/oil change/ rainy day?

As an aside I have a pearl-handled shoe button hook for the perfect O-ring installer too.
-Dick
Mike W.
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Re: Didn't know these existed! Am I making a mistake?

Post by Mike W. »

craigb93 wrote: Nov 05, 2020 10:21 PM The way this particular fuse in made with the solder 'bullet' ends added is the weak point of a perfectly good fuse. The old originals had all metal steel ends and no solder that could take a lot more heat in the case of a loose connection than the lead bullet ends.

-Dick
No, the ends were steel, the solder that melted was inside the glass fuse which attached the ends to the fuse link itself. I could see the intact fuse link but also see little balls of solder which you could roll around inside the glass.
craigb93
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Re: Didn't know these existed! Am I making a mistake?

Post by craigb93 »

Not contesting that the bullet ended GCB are made differently from the square ended ones. The one in my hand looks like it started out as a steel ended part (shiny) and the bullet ends (dull) are added with lead. Maybe some of the lead can get inside if the temperature gets up to melting. Regardless, maintaining a good pinch contact is necessary for any end-contact style fuse to perform up to rating. Either a really good fuse box that still has good tension in the fuse clips or enhance the tension as I have w/ O-rings.
-Dick
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