vote yet?

General conversations about BMW E28s and the people who own them.
BMWCCA2
Posts: 4060
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: Central Virginia

Re: vote yet?

Post by BMWCCA2 »

Bonsaibacker wrote: Nov 06, 2020 6:56 AM Voting should be easy- it is our right. It should not be easy to commit fraud (allow someone else to cast your ballot or give it away- I do not understand why it cannot be done in person with FEW exceptions). If it is important to you, make the effort!
What if you work on Election Day?
What if you're sick on Election Day?
What if there's a world-wide pandemic on Election Day?

I agree completely—voting should be easy. I voted early for the first time since I was 21. I went to my county office building, showed my credentials, received a ballot, filled it out, and ran it through an electronic tabulator. My state counted my vote immediately.

If I lived in PA, their Republican controlled legislature refused to allow absentee, early, and mail-in ballots to be counted until AFTER election day. They had the chance to change the law and didn't, thinking it would somehow benefit their party's leader. Their party's leader told everyone not to vote early, by mail or other. He sewed the seeds of distrust in the mail-in ballot to his base. And it came back to bite him. Don't blame those who took advantage of mailing in their vote in a legal manner.
Until you show me rampant cases of fraud in mail-in balloting, I'm just not going to consider it a legitimate complaint, or even a factor in the final count. You can't be honest and sue to stop the ballot counting in some states and sue to continue it in others. You shouldn't put more obstacles in the way of our service personnel overseas who must vote by mail-in ballot.

Hell, even our President voted by mail.
stuartinmn
Posts: 9380
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: Minneapolis

Re: vote yet?

Post by stuartinmn »

Voting should be easy, but I would also add the voting methods should be uniform across the states for early/absentee votes as well as for the deadlines - that way there would be less confusion for voters, and less possibilities for legal wrangling by either party.
garageboy
Posts: 2479
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: New York City
Contact:

Re: vote yet?

Post by garageboy »

BMWCCA2 wrote: Nov 06, 2020 7:25 AM Until you show me rampant cases of fraud in mail-in balloting, I'm just not going to consider it a legitimate complaint, or even a factor in the final count. You can't be honest and sue to stop the ballot counting in some states and sue to continue it in others. You shouldn't put more obstacles in the way of our service personnel overseas who must vote by mail-in ballot.
Thank you, Phil, for saying what needed to be said!!
Bonsaibacker
Posts: 929
Joined: Oct 26, 2017 3:36 PM
Location: Palatka FL

Re: vote yet?

Post by Bonsaibacker »

BMWCCA2 wrote: Nov 06, 2020 7:25 AM
Bonsaibacker wrote: Nov 06, 2020 6:56 AM Voting should be easy- it is our right. It should not be easy to commit fraud (allow someone else to cast your ballot or give it away- I do not understand why it cannot be done in person with FEW exceptions). If it is important to you, make the effort!
What if you work on Election Day?
What if you're sick on Election Day?
What if there's a world-wide pandemic on Election Day?

I agree completely—voting should be easy. I voted early for the first time since I was 21. I went to my county office building, showed my credentials, received a ballot, filled it out, and ran it through an electronic tabulator. My state counted my vote immediately.
Early voting answers your first 2 questions.
Your last question- put the voting booths near the liquor/grocery store or Walmart with available hours- that should catch everyone who isn't comfortable venturing out during the pandemic. There are too many solutions available to insist that it cannot be done AND once you start catering to "what ifs" it gets endless. Surely we can agree there has to be a line and someone (possibly you or me) might find it inconvenient.

I am not concerned about mail in voter fraud but it certainly opens the door to the potential particularly considering there is no accountability/verification.

Are we headed to the "tailpipe" yet?
sixseries
Posts: 1326
Joined: Jan 25, 2008 1:17 AM
Location: Portland, OR

Re: vote yet?

Post by sixseries »

Bonsaibacker wrote: Nov 06, 2020 6:56 AM Voting should be easy- it is our right. It should not be easy to commit fraud (allow someone else to cast your ballot or give it away- I do not understand why it cannot be done in person with FEW exceptions). If it is important to you, make the effort!

All of the current efforts to make voting easier seems like a teacher giving a test and announcing there will be multiple opportunities for extra credit. We all know the election was coming and who we were voting for.
I guess I don't get your objection to making voting easier? I mean early voting does equate to making voting easier right?

To avoid the tailpipe, i see you have a Lapis Blue 3 series! My '82 eta is Lapis as well, such a pretty color.
gadget73
Posts: 1176
Joined: Nov 22, 2017 10:30 PM
Location: New Jersey

Re: vote yet?

Post by gadget73 »

stuartinmn wrote: Nov 06, 2020 9:26 AM Voting should be easy, but I would also add the voting methods should be uniform across the states for early/absentee votes as well as for the deadlines - that way there would be less confusion for voters, and less possibilities for legal wrangling by either party.
I can get behind that.


As for admitting or not admitting Puerto Rico and/or DC as a state because the parties think it would swing elections in or against their favor, I really think thats bad reasoning no matter which side makes the argument.
Bonsaibacker
Posts: 929
Joined: Oct 26, 2017 3:36 PM
Location: Palatka FL

Re: vote yet?

Post by Bonsaibacker »

sixseries wrote: Nov 06, 2020 10:46 AM
Bonsaibacker wrote: Nov 06, 2020 6:56 AM Voting should be easy- it is our right. It should not be easy to commit fraud (allow someone else to cast your ballot or give it away- I do not understand why it cannot be done in person with FEW exceptions). If it is important to you, make the effort!

All of the current efforts to make voting easier seems like a teacher giving a test and announcing there will be multiple opportunities for extra credit. We all know the election was coming and who we were voting for.
I guess I don't get your objection to making voting easier? I mean early voting does equate to making voting easier right?

To avoid the tailpipe, i see you have a Lapis Blue 3 series! My '82 eta is Lapis as well, such a pretty color.
Mr Six-
Lapis is hands down my favorite color. Had a royal blue E28 which was a close second. Really loving my Bronzit too, so perhaps the chassis is primary and the skin secondary!

To wrap up my position- no objection to making voting easier. Just think that it should be done in person- even if that takes 2 months to collect. Pessimistic about technology, a lot of middlemen, and I believe it should require some effort from the voter to acknowledge the investment and importance of their participation. To wrap up- KISS: keep it simple stupid (and that is not a slam on anyone's choice for president, gender or soda preference).
Blue Shadow
Posts: 10195
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: SE PA

Re: vote yet?

Post by Blue Shadow »

BMWCCA2 wrote: Nov 06, 2020 7:25 AM You can't be honest and sue to stop the ballot counting in some states and sue to continue it in others.
I thought this tactic was especially revealing of the person that demanded it.
e12euro
Posts: 220
Joined: Jan 11, 2007 4:28 AM
Location: EA

Re: vote yet?

Post by e12euro »

stuartinmn wrote: Nov 06, 2020 9:26 AM Voting should be easy, but I would also add the voting methods should be uniform across the states for early/absentee votes as well as for the deadlines - that way there would be less confusion for voters, and less possibilities for legal wrangling by either party.
Maybe one day. :)

This election has made me think more on claims that the 2016 election was affected by Russian interference. Today, that claim seems more fanciful than ever, and I can't believe how much time and resources were devoted to its investigation. I could say the political world is like a zoo, but that's unfair, animals have a lot more dignity and decorum. :cool:
a
Posts: 12469
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: Marshfield ,MA

Re: vote yet?

Post by a »

" Russia, if you're listening" and trump's reluctance to come down on Putin.There is a connection there somewhere. Trump's financial history would deny him a security clearance if he were a normal civil service employee.
e12euro
Posts: 220
Joined: Jan 11, 2007 4:28 AM
Location: EA

Re: vote yet?

Post by e12euro »

a wrote: Nov 10, 2020 12:11 AM " Russia, if you're listening" and trump's reluctance to come down on Putin.There is a connection there somewhere. Trump's financial history would deny him a security clearance if he were a normal civil service employee.
You're probably right, but the Russians are a toothless tiger without a Chinese pot to piss in. Nah, Beijing is where future trouble is coming from, and no, they still don't allow voting out there, never will.
e12euro
Posts: 220
Joined: Jan 11, 2007 4:28 AM
Location: EA

Re: vote yet?

Post by e12euro »

This is rather amusing, although they appear to have reconciled on the road to Damascus. I love a happy ending. ;)

President Elect Joe Biden appearing on Family Ties
sixseries
Posts: 1326
Joined: Jan 25, 2008 1:17 AM
Location: Portland, OR

Re: vote yet?

Post by sixseries »

e12euro wrote: Nov 09, 2020 1:51 PM
stuartinmn wrote: Nov 06, 2020 9:26 AM Voting should be easy, but I would also add the voting methods should be uniform across the states for early/absentee votes as well as for the deadlines - that way there would be less confusion for voters, and less possibilities for legal wrangling by either party.
Maybe one day. :)

This election has made me think more on claims that the 2016 election was affected by Russian interference. Today, that claim seems more fanciful than ever, and I can't believe how much time and resources were devoted to its investigation. I could say the political world is like a zoo, but that's unfair, animals have a lot more dignity and decorum. :cool:
I mean i think it's clear they did try to interfere and favored Trump, and the campaign was fully onboard for the help. Not because it was Russia specifically, but just because they want to win at all costs. However, it's nuts to think that actually altered the election results.
sixseries
Posts: 1326
Joined: Jan 25, 2008 1:17 AM
Location: Portland, OR

Re: vote yet?

Post by sixseries »

e12euro wrote: Nov 10, 2020 11:15 AM
a wrote: Nov 10, 2020 12:11 AM " Russia, if you're listening" and trump's reluctance to come down on Putin.There is a connection there somewhere. Trump's financial history would deny him a security clearance if he were a normal civil service employee.
You're probably right, but the Russians are a toothless tiger without a Chinese pot to piss in. Nah, Beijing is where future trouble is coming from, and no, they still don't allow voting out there, never will.
This is exactly right. Russia is an unstable country with a barely functioning economy completely reliant on natural resources that seem to be on the out. China and her 1.4bn people is the future, whether we like it or not.
Bonsaibacker
Posts: 929
Joined: Oct 26, 2017 3:36 PM
Location: Palatka FL

Re: vote yet?

Post by Bonsaibacker »

sixseries wrote: Dec 03, 2020 3:56 AM This is exactly right. Russia is an unstable country with a barely functioning economy completely reliant on natural resources that seem to be on the out. China and her 1.4bn people is the future, whether we like it or not.
So true and we are assisting. I believe we are past the tipping point of preventing this.
sixseries
Posts: 1326
Joined: Jan 25, 2008 1:17 AM
Location: Portland, OR

Re: vote yet?

Post by sixseries »

There was no preventing this. China has 4x the people and a modern, capitalistic economy (even if they get to just half our our GDP per capita, that means their GDP is still 2x ours). It was inevitable no matter what we did. We can try to preserve out influence in the Asia region, which is by far the most important region in the world, but we blew it when we pulled out of the TPP and now there is a trade agreement including all major Asian Pacific powers, except for us.

Also, one of the best ways to continue to grow our strength? A lot more Americans. How does that happen? A lot more immigration.
Bonsaibacker
Posts: 929
Joined: Oct 26, 2017 3:36 PM
Location: Palatka FL

Re: vote yet?

Post by Bonsaibacker »

Mr. Six- Wanting to keep this out of the political arena. My comments were meant to emphasize that we did not help ourselves. We have watered down our education system, sold (quite literally) our future, and devalued our own goods in favor of Chinese products. All of these add up to a weak position that is dependent on others. I do not blame China. We have worked our way up in work boots only to slide down in silk slippers by relaxing accountability and accepting excuses.
e12euro
Posts: 220
Joined: Jan 11, 2007 4:28 AM
Location: EA

Re: vote yet?

Post by e12euro »

Bonsaibacker wrote: Dec 03, 2020 3:39 PM Mr. Six- Wanting to keep this out of the political arena. My comments were meant to emphasize that we did not help ourselves. We have watered down our education system, sold (quite literally) our future, and devalued our own goods in favor of Chinese products. All of these add up to a weak position that is dependent on others. I do not blame China. We have worked our way up in work boots only to slide down in silk slippers by relaxing accountability and accepting excuses.
It was around 10 years ago, and I bought a bag of Hershey's kisses. It was shaped in the form of a single large Hershey's Kiss, if anyone is familiar with such candies. Anyway, I look on the bottom of the bag and it says "Made in a facility approved by Hersheys in the PRC (People's Republic of China)"

I have noticed that Hershey's bars are made in America, which makes me wonder why that one product was made in China. Apart from the obvious - lower labor cost, more profit.

Now I get into the habit of checking where stuff is made in, with a view to avoiding China. This isn't political, if you come across a tire and it doesn't say on the sidewall where it's made, if it just gives a website, it's made in China. Even cheap Korean tires say they are made in Korea, and I am ok with South Korea, Thailand, Taiwan, Vietnam even, but I am NOT ok with China.

Newsflash: China is still a communist country, and anyone that trusts them in negotiations is a complete moron. This isn't political, it's God given fact.
Mike W.
Posts: 26872
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: California Whine Country

Re: vote yet?

Post by Mike W. »

e12euro wrote: Dec 07, 2020 2:41 PM
Now I get into the habit of checking where stuff is made in, with a view to avoiding China. This isn't political, if you come across a tire and it doesn't say on the sidewall where it's made, if it just gives a website, it's made in China. Even cheap Korean tires say they are made in Korea, and I am ok with South Korea, Thailand, Taiwan, Vietnam even, but I am NOT ok with China.
I too do that, although there was once a time I avoided anything made here, back in the 80's quality here was pretty lacking IMO.
Newsflash: China is still a communist country, and anyone that trusts them in negotiations is a complete moron. This isn't political, it's God given fact.
I distrust them because they are a totalitarian regime, not because of their so called economic system. See what's happening in Hong Kong. "The Party" justifies all, not the people.
Bonsaibacker
Posts: 929
Joined: Oct 26, 2017 3:36 PM
Location: Palatka FL

Re: vote yet?

Post by Bonsaibacker »

e12euro wrote: Dec 07, 2020 2:41 PM Newsflash: China is still a communist country, and anyone that trusts them in negotiations is a complete moron. This isn't political, it's God given fact.
They would love nothing more than to see us fall.
e12euro
Posts: 220
Joined: Jan 11, 2007 4:28 AM
Location: EA

Re: vote yet?

Post by e12euro »

The tire thing annoys me. You have a set of good Continental tires and all they put on the sidewall is the website, and yet some inexpensive Khumo tires do say Korea on the side. I was also looking at some classic Vredesteins, which seem to be the only VR rated 14 in tire in the world. They say made in Holland on the side. If it doesn't say where it's made in suspect the worst.

The trouble is, cars may be made in say Korea or Germany, but use parts from their susbsidiaries or suppliers in China. This was why during 2020 when the Covid virus first struck some brands had to stop production because their Chinese parts supply dried up. I know Hyundai and BMW were some that had to stop.

Since this thread is about voting you really have to feel sorry for the folks in Hong Kong. I heard that it was some years ago they had their final really free elections. Now they still have elections, but it's more like you can choose from the pre selected Beijing approved choices. I suspect the rich Hong Kong people left years ago, but the majority never had that option. I noticed when the Hong Kong uprising started late in 2019 so many HK people sent friend requests on Facebook, some wearing U.S.A. T shirts. The administration said there is nothing they can do to help them, because Hong Kong belongs to China, and this is true. There is very little any overseas government can do to help them. :(

As a sign of how little the Beijing goverment understands about the capitalist world, I saw a report that in one part of China they turned one of their towns, I guess in some countries you could call it a good sized city, to amusement parks. So they had a mini Paris with Eiffel tower, mini London etc. However, the place was deserted. They must have figured build it and local people will visit. Obviously unlike in the West they hadn't done a business analysis, feasibility study. But that's what the government used their money for. They know about control, but are clueless about how a free market system works, well at least the Beijing leaders are. It's still the old top down, Soviet style planned system of we tell you what, where and how to do it. :)
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