Going solar

General conversations about BMW E28s and the people who own them.
south26
Posts: 6323
Joined: Jul 13, 2008 2:16 PM
Location: Kettering, OH

Going solar

Post by south26 »

So we are having solar panels put on our house. Should supply 85% of our highest needs. It is a lone of 20 years, but the lone cost is the same amount as my current electric bill, so I am swapping one bill for another, but the new bill will not go up over the next few years unlike the electric bill does every year. Kind of excited.(I hope)


Andy
Mike W.
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Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: California Whine Country

Re: Going solar

Post by Mike W. »

Yeah, I really need to get that rolling soon myself. I'm served by PGE which is likely to be on the hook for billions for the fires in recent years so I'm guessing their already high rates aren't likely to go down. Plus there's a 30% fed tax credit which expires this year. I'm actually thinking slightly oversize since the solar cells decline slightly with age and they get dirty and I don't feel like getting up on top of my 2 story to clean them off.
Somjuan
Posts: 56
Joined: Feb 09, 2017 11:45 PM
Location: Sacramento

Re: Going solar

Post by Somjuan »

Depending on the way you’re financing, I’d shoot for 105% at least, as someone who used to design the systems. Then you won’t get nailed with a true-up bill at the end of the year
south26
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Joined: Jul 13, 2008 2:16 PM
Location: Kettering, OH

Re: Going solar

Post by south26 »

Going over what you need is not as helpline here in the Midwest . We do not get to charge them electric company for any extra kWh. We just get credits that go away at the end of the year. So if I produce to much I just helping the electric company get free power.


Andy
gadget73
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Joined: Nov 22, 2017 10:30 PM
Location: New Jersey

Re: Going solar

Post by gadget73 »

We have leased panels, ends up covering all of our needs once it all tallies up at the end of the year. Our solar lease is some $60 a month less than the electric bill was, so its a savings. Also fixed cost, so that delta is likely to get larger over time. I think this is the third year with the panels. The whole back side of my garage has panels, and one side of the house roof. The garage is the south-facing array and has more panels.

Basically it works out to a credit system. Spring and fall we over-produce, summer the AC burns it up, winter just has low sunlight hours so generation is down. The power co does have to buy any surplus, but its at something like 1/10 what I have to pay them per kwh so it doesn't do me any good to sell it back.
Bachehbeemveh
Posts: 116
Joined: Dec 09, 2012 10:13 PM
Location: Maryland DC Virgnia

Re: Going solar

Post by Bachehbeemveh »

My friend is trying to sell his parents house and both perspective buyers have walked away based on the houses solar panels not sure what's going on thier.

Benny
Shawn D.
Beamter
Beamter
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Re: Going solar

Post by Shawn D. »

Bachehbeemveh wrote:My friend is trying to sell his parents house and both perspective buyers have walked away based on the houses solar panels not sure what's going on thier.
Real estate studies of the market from 2005-2015 have shown that the cost of the PV system increases the value of the house with a nearly 1:1 return. The experience with just two buyers isn't indicative of anything, really.

It's "prospective," BTW.
Bachehbeemveh
Posts: 116
Joined: Dec 09, 2012 10:13 PM
Location: Maryland DC Virgnia

Re: Going solar

Post by Bachehbeemveh »

Shawn D. wrote:
Bachehbeemveh wrote:My friend is trying to sell his parents house and both perspective buyers have walked away based on the houses solar panels not sure what's going on thier.
Real estate studies of the market from 2005-2015 have shown that the cost of the PV system increases the value of the house with a nearly 1:1 return. The experience with just two buyers isn't indicative of anything, really.


It's "prospective," BTW.
According to seller the 2 buyer's didn't like the fact that the solar panels were leased.

Benny
Somjuan
Posts: 56
Joined: Feb 09, 2017 11:45 PM
Location: Sacramento

Re: Going solar

Post by Somjuan »

south26 wrote:Going over what you need is not as helpline here in the Midwest . We do not get to charge them electric company for any extra kWh. We just get credits that go away at the end of the year. So if I produce to much I just helping the electric company get free power.


Andy
It’s the same here actually, it’s more that your total monthly bill for adding a few more panels will be drastically lower than what’s going to be left of your electric bill. Assuming prices on electric are similar anyhow, the price difference will be marginal. Like, a few dollars more. Unless your roof is special for some reason, difficult to install on, high angle, you have a bunch of trees, etc. The panels are nice, but not magic.
Shawn D.
Beamter
Beamter
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Re: Going solar

Post by Shawn D. »

Bachehbeemveh wrote:
Shawn D. wrote:
Bachehbeemveh wrote:My friend is trying to sell his parents house and both perspective buyers have walked away based on the houses solar panels not sure what's going on thier.
Real estate studies of the market from 2005-2015 have shown that the cost of the PV system increases the value of the house with a nearly 1:1 return. The experience with just two buyers isn't indicative of anything, really.

It's "prospective," BTW.
According to seller the 2 buyer's didn't like the fact that the solar panels were leased.
Ah, that's a key fact you left out. That arrangement doesn't increase the value of the house whatsoever -- it likely reduces the value.
gadget73
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Joined: Nov 22, 2017 10:30 PM
Location: New Jersey

Re: Going solar

Post by gadget73 »

I'd have preferred being able to just buy ours outright but the spare cash simply wasn't available for it at the time. The lease still ends up saving some cash and there aren't plans to move. I wasn't planning to go Amish and remove the electric from the house in the next 20 years, so for me its just trading one bill for a slightly smaller one. The down side of it though, if I did a bunch of stuff to slash my power usage it won't save me anything. The lease payment is the lease payment.
south26
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Joined: Jul 13, 2008 2:16 PM
Location: Kettering, OH

Re: Going solar

Post by south26 »

Not on a lease but will end up owning them once the loan is paid off.

Andy
south26
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Location: Kettering, OH

Re: Going solar

Post by south26 »

Well the panels are on. Now just waiting for the county to inspect. Then the electric company has to put in a new meter. I was told if I run the panels with the old meter I would get charged for the power I was making since the meter can only go in one direction. So I am hoping that in 2 weeks I will be off the grid (mostly)


Andy
tn535i
Posts: 5585
Joined: Jul 14, 2006 1:30 PM
Location: Middle Tennessee

Re: Going solar

Post by tn535i »

When I built my garage 4-5 years ago with a South facing roof on one side I was very interested in solar panels and did some research. I calculated close to 400 sq ft could be installed and produce up to 6000 watts at peak which was enough to run both my air conditioners. By I also learned that it's rare to get and only during ideal conditions and then over time it degrades even with maintenance. All of which was no surprise. However I was also hoping to DIY and make it worth considering but not much was available at the time with any real savings or even more expensive than a contractor. Anything I found was going to have a 20 year payback minimum. I'm surprised to see others in regions with less sunlight finding it economical. Electric utility price in TN is some of the lower in the nation (< 11 cents/kwhr) and that factors in huge. So we have all this sunlight compared to the North but relatively few solar installations. Final negative was my wife simply thought they looked ugly. Maybe the day will come I revisit and find it desirable but not here, not yet. Since my garage is detached I did put in heavy enough copper to either charge cars some day or push the amperage back to the house.
south26
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Location: Kettering, OH

Re: Going solar

Post by south26 »

Well hopefully it is just replacing one bill for another. And the new bill can only go down in value since it will stay at the loan price until it is paid off. I will not see my electric bill go up since I hopefully will only be paying the 4 dollar line fee.


Andy
south26
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Joined: Jul 13, 2008 2:16 PM
Location: Kettering, OH

Re: Going solar

Post by south26 »

So my electric bill was 17 dollars last month. That includes the 12 dollars in fees so only paid for 5 dollars in electricity. So far really liking the panels on my house. The only thing is I now hate cloudy days.


Andy
Mike W.
Posts: 26872
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: California Whine Country

Re: Going solar

Post by Mike W. »

south26 wrote:So my electric bill was 17 dollars last month. That includes the 12 dollars in fees so only paid for 5 dollars in electricity. So far really liking the panels on my house. The only thing is I now hate cloudy days.


Andy
As someone who's getting ready to pull the handle, or write the check in this case,

Yes... :banana:
vinceg101
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Joined: Jun 20, 2007 2:40 AM
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Going solar

Post by vinceg101 »

Well for anyone contemplating building a new house in California, the new 2020 California Building Code going into effect January 1st is including PV system installation mandatory. The California Green Code and Residential Code have had pre-wiring (conduit and pull-boxes) requirements for all new structures since 2008 or 2010; now the whole system is included (in fairness we in the industry knew this was coming for some time, we were just waiting for them to make it official). Eventually it will probably be expanded to substantial remodels, but that might take another decade.

On whole I feel it's a good thing ultimately especially for California where we have more than favorable conditions for PV. Frankly it's kind of stupid that this hasn't been implemented sooner, but technology had to catch up I suppose. What I feel should happen is that the Utility companies should be required to buy back the excess power from their customers without the stupid Draconian limits they've imposed so they can control their market shares. Ideally they should use this next phase of residential PV expansion to de-centralize their power grid and use their customers as a generation source. This way the private homeowner's can actually earn money off power generation; they can re-invest the money into their properties and even empower them to invest in other properties. Not just simple cost savings but actual income.

(I know this is all idealistic ramblings but it actually could happen if there was a political and social will for it.)

As for me, I have seriously been considering PV since I have seen other friends and family members do it. If I were considering an electric car then I would be all over it as I would use the PV system to charge the car directly, but those are two big expenses not at the top of the list for us and this property at the moment (we use such little power as it is, but that could change if we install AC as I have been threatening to do). I will be working with a PV company on an Off-Grid project and will picking their brains (in fact I have a site meeting tomorrow with them and just might start now).
Mike W.
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Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: California Whine Country

Re: Going solar

Post by Mike W. »

Just signed the contract. One huge selling point for the particular contractor/parts, is it's capable of 2Kw of off grid power. Significant to those of us living in PGE supplied areas.
south26 wrote:So we are having solar panels put on our house. Should supply 85% of our highest needs. It is a lone of 20 years, but the lone cost is the same amount as my current electric bill, so I am swapping one bill for another, but the new bill will not go up over the next few years unlike the electric bill does every year. Kind of excited.(I hope)


Andy
How big a system did you put in? Mine will be 5.1Kw. "Should" cover 100%.
south26
Posts: 6323
Joined: Jul 13, 2008 2:16 PM
Location: Kettering, OH

Re: Going solar

Post by south26 »

My system is 4.8. Right now a bit less. Made 8 kWh yesterday. That was with a mostly cloudy day.


Andy
SPF2006
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Location: Baltimore, Maryland

Re: Going solar

Post by SPF2006 »

Interested, and subscribed.
south26
Posts: 6323
Joined: Jul 13, 2008 2:16 PM
Location: Kettering, OH

Re: Going solar

Post by south26 »

Even better, when we make to much electricity we get a 13 cent credit per kWh. We pay 11 per kWh. So we try to laundry at night so we are buying less expensive electricity.


Andy
Mike W.
Posts: 26872
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: California Whine Country

Re: Going solar

Post by Mike W. »

south26 wrote:Even better, when we make to much electricity we get a 13 cent credit per kWh. We pay 11 per kWh. So we try to laundry at night so we are buying less expensive electricity.


Andy
:cry: I've been paying ~24 cents a Kwh. PGE will buy my power at 3 cents a Kwh. So I want to be close, not fat, not lean.

A buddy of mine in Az is only paying a dime a Kwh, but the local utility jacks up their price to the max if a solar system is installed. So where the situation should be perfect, it's not.
5 cents
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Joined: Oct 20, 2013 12:16 PM

Re: Going solar

Post by 5 cents »

Federal income tax credit (ITC) is not gone for 2020, just reduced from 30% to 26%. It is further reduced to 22% for 2021. For 2022 and on, owners of new commercial solar energy systems get a 10% credit BUT, there is no federal credit for residential solar energy systems. I suppose Congress could change the rules, but unlikely given their revenue-grabbing nature. The credit is applied in the year the system is put into operation (not the year ordered or purchased). No income tax credit for panels and convertors in State of California after 2019. There are still some credits available for electricity storage systems. You'd think CA would at least follow federal law to avoid confusion for 2020 and 2021.
tn535i
Posts: 5585
Joined: Jul 14, 2006 1:30 PM
Location: Middle Tennessee

Re: Going solar

Post by tn535i »

So in Florida where I used to live it makes so much sense but 1 in 4 seems like an exaggeration. Last spring when we flew into Ft Lauderdale I remember looking down at all those houses and very FEW had any form of solar. Maybe 1 in 4 (or more) had pools though. I can imagine the day when you have both the 'pool man' and the 'solar man' come to clean and check everything though.
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