Anyone ordered from Lseat.com

General conversations about BMW E28s and the people who own them.
tschultz
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Re: Anyone ordered from Lseat.com

Post by tschultz »

Sparkeysf wrote:I received my color samples from lseat.com this week. It appears my Pearl Beige seats are somewhere between Ecru White and Ivory. I'm having a difficult time deciding. Are you still happy with the choice of Ecru White after completing the upholstery project?
I just got them in the car but still need to do the backing of the seat. I am happy with them, but if you are looking for a perfect match this is not it. The first photo I shared is a good representation of Ecru White to Pearl Beige. The PB color is slightly more of a green hue --I suspect their Ivory isn't going to be right either. In the car you can notice this slightly, but I wasn't going for a perfect match, just seats in much better condition.

When comparing the skin thickness, it seems LSeat's skins are not as thick. That or the crusted old skins that I removed just feel thicker.
Sparkeysf
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Re: Anyone ordered from Lseat.com

Post by Sparkeysf »

I ended-up choosing the ivory. It likely won't be a perfect match.... but like you, I'll be happy to get rid of the old mangled leather. Interestingly, the FedEx tracking information I just received says the leather is being shipped from Texas. I had heard from others that they had issues with US Customs as they were shipped from somewhere in South America. What do the seat back covers look like? Are they sewn to fit? Or, are they just pieces of leather that need to be glued-on?

tschultz wrote:
Sparkeysf wrote:I received my color samples from lseat.com this week. It appears my Pearl Beige seats are somewhere between Ecru White and Ivory. I'm having a difficult time deciding. Are you still happy with the choice of Ecru White after completing the upholstery project?
I just got them in the car but still need to do the backing of the seat. I am happy with them, but if you are looking for a perfect match this is not it. The first photo I shared is a good representation of Ecru White to Pearl Beige. The PB color is slightly more of a green hue --I suspect their Ivory isn't going to be right either. In the car you can notice this slightly, but I wasn't going for a perfect match, just seats in much better condition.

When comparing the skin thickness, it seems LSeat's skins are not as thick. That or the crusted old skins that I removed just feel thicker.
tschultz
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Re: Anyone ordered from Lseat.com

Post by tschultz »

They are cut pieces of leather ready to be glued to the backing.
BimmerDan
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Re: Anyone ordered from Lseat.com

Post by BimmerDan »

Here a photo of the back seat, there is a blemish in the middle.
Image
Sparkeysf
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Re: Anyone ordered from Lseat.com

Post by Sparkeysf »

Received my "leather" sets from lseat.com a few days ago. While, the color is a fairly good match with my interior.... I have to say I'm extremely displeased with the quality. Nobody reviewing these on any forum I've read bothered to mention that these are not real leather. Even though the lseat.com site states "genuine leather" and "real leather" in multiple places what I received is very poor quality polyurethane bonded onto some kind of remanufactured leather waste. I guess it was a huge mistake to try to save some money on this project. I can't possibly spend the $1200-1400 I'm being quoted by local upholstery shops to install this stuff if it's only going to last a couple years in the car. I'm going to have to see if I can return them for refund, or I'm out $900. In addition, the armrest covers they promised were not included. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
brickwhite
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Re: Anyone ordered from Lseat.com

Post by brickwhite »

. it's not a bad deal.
Last edited by brickwhite on Nov 17, 2019 3:37 PM, edited 1 time in total.
stuartinmn
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Re: Anyone ordered from Lseat.com

Post by stuartinmn »

Bonded leather is often used for upholstery materials, you see it quite a bit in home furniture. The Wikipedia description:

Bonded leather is made by shredding leather scraps and leather fiber, then mixing it with bonding materials. The mixture is next extruded onto a cloth or paper backing, and the surface is usually embossed with a leather-like texture or grain. Color and patterning, if any, are a surface treatment that does not penetrate like a dyeing process would. The natural leather fiber content of bonded leather varies. The manufacturing process is somewhat similar to the production of paper.

Lower-quality materials may suffer flaking of the surface material in as little as a few years, while better varieties are considered very durable and retain their pattern and color even during commercial use. Because the composition of bonded leathers and related products varies considerably, and is sometimes a trade secret, it may be difficult to predict how a given product will perform over the course of time. There is a wide range in the longevity of bonded leathers and related products; some better-quality bonded leathers are claimed to be superior in durability over low-quality genuine leather.


Manufacturers usually will state if their product is made from real leather hides or bonded leather. They do show two levels of kits on their website, one for real cow leather and one for faux leather, but it sounds like they're dancing around the actual definition of 'real'.
BimmerDan
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Re: Anyone ordered from Lseat.com

Post by BimmerDan »

I'm no expert on leather, but when I ordered for my door cards the "hide" came in irregular shapes. Would bonded leather be a regular shape with square edges?
Sparkeysf
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Re: Anyone ordered from Lseat.com

Post by Sparkeysf »

brickwhite wrote:Like I stated in my post, they may or may not be real leather.

However for $350 for the sewn covers and doing the work myself... it's not a bad deal.
Yeah, you did mention that. But, if you purchased both front and rear sets and they last no more than three years is it still a good deal?
Sparkeysf
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Re: Anyone ordered from Lseat.com

Post by Sparkeysf »

stuartinmn wrote:Bonded leather is often used for upholstery materials, you see it quite a bit in home furniture. The Wikipedia description:

Bonded leather is made by shredding leather scraps and leather fiber, then mixing it with bonding materials. The mixture is next extruded onto a cloth or paper backing, and the surface is usually embossed with a leather-like texture or grain. Color and patterning, if any, are a surface treatment that does not penetrate like a dyeing process would. The natural leather fiber content of bonded leather varies. The manufacturing process is somewhat similar to the production of paper.

Lower-quality materials may suffer flaking of the surface material in as little as a few years, while better varieties are considered very durable and retain their pattern and color even during commercial use. Because the composition of bonded leathers and related products varies considerably, and is sometimes a trade secret, it may be difficult to predict how a given product will perform over the course of time. There is a wide range in the longevity of bonded leathers and related products; some better-quality bonded leathers are claimed to be superior in durability over low-quality genuine leather.


Manufacturers usually will state if their product is made from real leather hides or bonded leather. They do show two levels of kits on their website, one for real cow leather and one for faux leather, but it sounds like they're dancing around the actual definition of 'real'.
I'm familiar with bonded leather used in sofa and auto upholstery. It does certainly vary in quality. My 2011 328i has a form of bonded leather that's held up quite well. However, it's very obviously much higher quality than what lseat.com is selling. Right now, I'm kicking myself over this purchase. I could have gotten a high quality German vinyl with a much longer lifespan for not a lot more cash.

The seller most certainly is dancing around the definition of "real" and "genuine cow leather". What I noticed is the extra pieces of "hide" I ordered with the intention of doing the door cards is actually thicker than what's used in the seat covers. The seat covers have a padding sewed to the underside so it makes it impossible to determine if the content is actually a remanufactured leather, or is "faux" leather. The cover for the center armrest on the back seat, and the headrest covers are stretchy and feel like plastic. Really not happy about this.
Last edited by Sparkeysf on Apr 05, 2019 3:25 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Sparkeysf
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Re: Anyone ordered from Lseat.com

Post by Sparkeysf »

BimmerDan wrote:I'm no expert on leather, but when I ordered for my door cards the "hide" came in irregular shapes. Would bonded leather be a regular shape with square edges?
That's curious. The "hides" I purchased have rounded corners... but, appear to have been cut with scissors. I wouldn't exactly call them irregular shapes. Did yours look like an actual natural animal hide? If so... who knows, maybe they sent me what they term "faux leather" on the site.
stuartinmn
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Re: Anyone ordered from Lseat.com

Post by stuartinmn »

I wonder if it's possible they just used the faux stuff instead of the real by mistake...I'm not defending them, but it may be worth asking to see if they'll own up to it.
demetk
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Re: Anyone ordered from Lseat.com

Post by demetk »

I just got mine in today and promptly opened the package terrified of what I might find. The material looks like leather to me. But then again I have no idea what bonded leather looks like. Does bonded leather have a fabric backing? These don't.

Image

Image
Sparkeysf
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Re: Anyone ordered from Lseat.com

Post by Sparkeysf »

demetk wrote:I just got mine in today and promptly opened the package terrified of what I might find. The material looks like leather to me. But then again I have no idea what bonded leather looks like. Does bonded leather have a fabric backing? These don't.
It's definitely bonded leather. Faux leather is what has a fabric backing. Perhaps I'm being too critical? To me "real leather" and "genuine leather" would mean just that. Not, a remanufactured leather backing with a man-made polyurethane layer on the exterior. I poured an entire glass of water on the surface, and it just rolled off. Real leather would absorb liquid. I'm actually not even entirely opposed to the use of bonded leather if it's durable enough to last a decade or so. I highly doubt this stuff will maintain a nice appearance for more than a couple years.
brickwhite
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Re: Anyone ordered from Lseat.com

Post by brickwhite »

found this video if anyone is interested.. It's pretty good. It's for E30 sport seats but they are very similar to e28 sport seats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUuhdw4ZEcY
Last edited by brickwhite on Nov 17, 2019 3:38 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Mike W.
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Re: Anyone ordered from Lseat.com

Post by Mike W. »

Sparkeysf wrote:
demetk wrote:I just got mine in today and promptly opened the package terrified of what I might find. The material looks like leather to me. But then again I have no idea what bonded leather looks like. Does bonded leather have a fabric backing? These don't.

It's definitely bonded leather. Faux leather is what has a fabric backing. Perhaps I'm being too critical? To me "real leather" and "genuine leather" would mean just that. Not, a remanufactured leather backing with a man-made polyurethane layer on the exterior. I poured an entire glass of water on the surface, and it just rolled off. Real leather would absorb liquid. I'm actually not even entirely opposed to the use of bonded leather if it's durable enough to last a decade or so. I highly doubt this stuff will maintain a nice appearance for more than a couple years.
Anyone know how to tell the difference, visually, between bonded leather and real leather? Sparkeysf seems to know, but the pic looked like the real thing to me. :dunno:
Cgw1984
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Re: Anyone ordered from Lseat.com

Post by Cgw1984 »

Old thread, came across it when doing research on this company, as im interested in doing a low budget restore on one of my cars. These are assuredly bonded leather, which DOES fit the "legal" definition of real leather. That said, for a project car/weekend car as most of your cars are (as is mine) these should be good for durability. Daily driven? Nah. However, those saying they "could have got vinyl instead" and gotten better durability... no. Vinyl is no more than a rubberized plastic placed on a cloth backing. Very low quality. Also- those "dissapointed" in these covers are a bit deluded as to the cost of this stuff. I did upholstery for several years, and a half hide of quality leather costs more than these covers, completed cost. Expecting something for nothing will almost always lead to dissapointment.
Mike W.
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Re: Anyone ordered from Lseat.com

Post by Mike W. »

I beg to differ with you Cgw1984 . Good quality vinyl upholstery, such as was originally used on most 528e's, will last 20 or 30 years under average conditions, longer than good leather. I'm sure there's cheap stuff that won't last a year too, just like cheap bonded leather. Quality of the above item? Haven't used it or seen it in person, and I have no idea.
cbumga11
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Re: Anyone ordered from Lseat.com

Post by cbumga11 »

I just installed mine, taking my time over a 2 month period. The frames were broken on the bolsters, which needed a reinforcement bracket fabricated and welded.
Before:
Image
Comparison/After:
Image

I can do a tutorial if anyone is interested. It's not nearly as difficult as I imagined.
Mike W.
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Re: Anyone ordered from Lseat.com

Post by Mike W. »

Interesting, looks good. There was someone else recently who went with Lseat and it looks very good. Partway down this page, viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69254&start=5150 I can't figure out how to link to a single post. However it being bonded leather is disappointing as I've had really lousy luck with it on office chairs, which might get more seat time, but still a far easier life than in a car. I was expecting to use them for a couple of my projects to be named later but now I'm not so sure. On the other hand, it does look good... :dunno:

Do, please, keep us posted.
mnnguy
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Re: Anyone ordered from Lseat.com

Post by mnnguy »

Mike W. wrote: Mar 28, 2021 12:37 AM Interesting, looks good. There was someone else recently who went with Lseat and it looks very good. Partway down this page, viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69254&start=5150 I can't figure out how to link to a single post. However it being bonded leather is disappointing as I've had really lousy luck with it on office chairs, which might get more seat time, but still a far easier life than in a car. I was expecting to use them for a couple of my projects to be named later but now I'm not so sure. On the other hand, it does look good... :dunno:

Do, please, keep us posted.
Oh I was the person that used Lseat kit that you linked to. Though I don't know what types of leather are which, this leather is nothing similar to the leather of office chairs that peel all over- experienced everything with those crappy leather chairs. Heres a closer up picture of the seats/grain. Lseat kit is relatively very popular among the e30 groups like r3v really do like them and suggest them to people.

Image
Mike W.
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Re: Anyone ordered from Lseat.com

Post by Mike W. »

mnnguy wrote: Mar 28, 2021 8:59 PM
Mike W. wrote: Mar 28, 2021 12:37 AM Interesting, looks good. There was someone else recently who went with Lseat and it looks very good. Partway down this page, viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69254&start=5150 I can't figure out how to link to a single post. However it being bonded leather is disappointing as I've had really lousy luck with it on office chairs, which might get more seat time, but still a far easier life than in a car. I was expecting to use them for a couple of my projects to be named later but now I'm not so sure. On the other hand, it does look good... :dunno:

Do, please, keep us posted.
Oh I was the person that used Lseat kit that you linked to. Though I don't know what types of leather are which, this leather is nothing similar to the leather of office chairs that peel all over- experienced everything with those crappy leather chairs. Heres a closer up picture of the seats/grain. Lseat kit is relatively very popular among the e30 groups like r3v really do like them and suggest them to people.
Good to hear, and please keep us posted on how they hold up. I know a little about leather, but not a whole lot.
garageboy
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Re: Anyone ordered from Lseat.com

Post by garageboy »

Wow. Just wow. This thread is making me realize that I'm going to have to go to a real upholsterer for my E28 and my E39. To me, that kit looks absolutely awful. Not a straight line in the entire setup. I must be extra OCD.

Oh, and perhaps the vinyl you find at your local home center is crap. But "leatherette", the vinyl that BMW used in the 1980s is utterly the most bulletproof material they EVER used in cars, way better than leather and certainly better than cloth. I have no idea what it was made of, but in any color, it was amazingly strong. Even 35+ years later.
George Hanson
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Re: Anyone ordered from Lseat.com

Post by George Hanson »

From here they look damn good!

Good onya...
Mike W.
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Re: Anyone ordered from Lseat.com

Post by Mike W. »

garageboy wrote: Mar 29, 2021 3:08 AM Wow. Just wow. This thread is making me realize that I'm going to have to go to a real upholsterer for my E28 and my E39. To me, that kit looks absolutely awful. Not a straight line in the entire setup. I must be extra OCD.
I wonder how much is the kit and how much is the installation?
Oh, and perhaps the vinyl you find at your local home center is crap. But "leatherette", the vinyl that BMW used in the 1980s is utterly the most bulletproof material they EVER used in cars, way better than leather and certainly better than cloth. I have no idea what it was made of, but in any color, it was amazingly strong. Even 35+ years later.
I've had pretty good luck buying from Amazon. Like probably 5 out of 6 have been good vinyl, but one was really crappy and started cracking and breaking after 6 months or so. In contrast to a outdoor cover I made that's starting to get hard after 5(?) years outdoors in the sun. Which seems ok to me. Marine vinyl seems to be generally good stuff, but I'm no expert.
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