And so it starts, Maeve

General conversations about BMW E28s and the people who own them.
1st 5er
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Re: And so it starts, Maeve

Post by 1st 5er »

:wave:

Looking super.
Keep those pics and updates coming.
gwb72tii
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Re: And so it starts, Maeve

Post by gwb72tii »

gray635 wrote: Jun 28, 2022 9:38 PM George:

What a great build! Top work.

I was glad to be able to make a very small contribution to Maeve with that driver's side sun visor I shipped out to you today. I will continue to follow your project with great interest and enjoyed very much our text message exchanges today.

Safe travels and good luck! :haul:

Regards,
Mike
Back at you barrister. Happy Fourth of July, and make sure you're having fun along the way! Got the visor today and it looks good.
I'll be seeing you somewhere along the way.

:cool:
cek
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Re: And so it starts, Maeve

Post by cek »

gwb72tii wrote: Jun 30, 2022 8:29 PM Image
Looking fantastic.

Did I miss the reasoning behind not doing the euro-exhaust cutout?
gwb72tii
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Re: And so it starts, Maeve

Post by gwb72tii »

haha no cek, I didn't know there was such a thing until well into the process.

but here is a serious question for you and others that run euro bumpers.
I am going to install a Supersprint exhaust system, and am planning on using the same rear muffler as you and others have used. Is the cutout necessary or will the exhaust tips clear the lip of the rear valance without modifying it?
Panici
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Re: And so it starts, Maeve

Post by Panici »

Maeve looks great! New paintjob makes it pop.
Can't believe the price on that gallon of paint, but at least you got it while it's still being produced.

How much did the bodywork & paint end up running, if you don't mind me asking?

I paid dearly for my E30's paintjob. I don't think I'll ever pay to get another car bodyworked & painted, but I don't regret my decision. Next time I paint a car I'm going to try my hand and probably end up with a "good enough" job.
John in VA
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Re: And so it starts, Maeve

Post by John in VA »

Panici wrote: Jul 05, 2022 12:55 PM Maeve looks great! New paintjob makes it pop.
Can't believe the price on that gallon of paint, but at least you got it while it's still being produced.
Red is one of the priciest colors.
gwb72tii
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Re: And so it starts, Maeve

Post by gwb72tii »

Today is one of those days in the Pacific Northwest, 75* and perfect. So I had all my cars outside and snapped a pic. The A5 is has sold as of today FWIW.

Image
Image
Last edited by gwb72tii on Jul 16, 2022 8:26 PM, edited 1 time in total.
gwb72tii
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Re: And so it starts, Maeve

Post by gwb72tii »

Maeve came with e34 H&R springs which is a little weird.
So, I am going to replace the springs with e28 lowering springs. As long as I’m starting from scratch, I thought I’d ask those of you that have gone through this if you have any preference between Eibach and H&R?

The last two e30’s I owned had H&R on one and Eibach on the other. Frankly I thought the Eibach rode better and the car’s stance looked better. But that may not translate over to e28’s.

Any one have an opinion?
1st 5er
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Re: And so it starts, Maeve

Post by 1st 5er »

Ran Eibach's and HD's on Das Biest for 10 + years with no complaints.
e12euro
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Re: And so it starts

Post by e12euro »

gwb72tii wrote: Nov 24, 2021 7:20 PM
Tiit wrote: Nov 21, 2021 5:18 PM Good story.
I have the same coffee stain on the carpet. Didn’t people drink anything while driving back in 80s? I’ve been working on some e28 cup holder solution, but haven’t finished yet.
Curious to see how the 3700 m30 work out.
Me too. The performance should be equal or better than the ‘88 M5 (sorry M5 gang, no disrespect intended).
So far I’m starting to realize my budget is too low
Metric Mechanic's old MM3900 engine was rated at 300 hp with L-jet back in the 1990s. One was put in a silver 1977 e12 530i owned by Jay Jones and featured in European Car magazine in 1993, it did some impressive burnouts. :cool:
Mike W.
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Re: And so it starts

Post by Mike W. »

e12euro wrote: Jul 17, 2022 2:36 PM
gwb72tii wrote: Nov 24, 2021 7:20 PM
Tiit wrote: Nov 21, 2021 5:18 PM Good story.
I have the same coffee stain on the carpet. Didn’t people drink anything while driving back in 80s? I’ve been working on some e28 cup holder solution, but haven’t finished yet.
Curious to see how the 3700 m30 work out.
Me too. The performance should be equal or better than the ‘88 M5 (sorry M5 gang, no disrespect intended).
So far I’m starting to realize my budget is too low
Metric Mechanic's old MM3900 engine was rated at 300 hp with L-jet back in the 1990s. One was put in a silver 1977 e12 530i owned by Jay Jones and featured in European Car magazine in 1993, it did some impressive burnouts. :cool:
There is much skepticism about MM HP numbers. And I do recall both that magazine, the writeup, and saw it (I think) in SD at 5er Fest 2004. But a good running 10:1 3.5 is impressive, especially in L jet, which probably gives a better torque curve, but less absolute HP than Motronic. With admittedly very old tires, once I got my euro 3.5 running right in my E12 I could spin the tires at will in first gear. Clutch out, just push down on the loud pedal and they'd spin. M5s are heavy, M5 territory? I dunno. Maybe. Maybe not. They might, or might not, have hit 300HP, but with 3.9, higher compression and more cam I'm sure it was/will be impressive. I'm suspect an M5 would pull it on top speed, but up to 80 or 100 MPH it might be a contest.
gwb72tii
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Re: And so it starts, Maeve

Post by gwb72tii »

MM is quoting about 285 hp.

If you go to their website, read the write up about their design, much of it is what someone like me would do on their own. Other than the reason for the new pistons which from an engineering standpoint is outside of my engineering background. Everything I’ve read makes sense.

As I mentioned before, I was going to attempt to rebuild the motor on my own which is within my mechanical capability. But after talking with Jim, there are more than a few areas where the tolerances are outside of my scope to measure and adjust. And there is way more to building a motor than a cam and high compression. So for once in my life I am happy to pay someone else to scrape their knuckles and pull on a torque wrench. It wasn’t a easy decision as I’ve never paid someone else to work on a car that I can work on.

The proof will be in the end result eh?
e12euro
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Re: And so it starts

Post by e12euro »

Mike W. wrote: Jul 17, 2022 10:41 PM
e12euro wrote: Jul 17, 2022 2:36 PM
gwb72tii wrote: Nov 24, 2021 7:20 PM
Tiit wrote: Nov 21, 2021 5:18 PM Good story.
I have the same coffee stain on the carpet. Didn’t people drink anything while driving back in 80s? I’ve been working on some e28 cup holder solution, but haven’t finished yet.
Curious to see how the 3700 m30 work out.
Me too. The performance should be equal or better than the ‘88 M5 (sorry M5 gang, no disrespect intended).
So far I’m starting to realize my budget is too low
Metric Mechanic's old MM3900 engine was rated at 300 hp with L-jet back in the 1990s. One was put in a silver 1977 e12 530i owned by Jay Jones and featured in European Car magazine in 1993, it did some impressive burnouts. :cool:
There is much skepticism about MM HP numbers. And I do recall both that magazine, the writeup, and saw it (I think) in SD at 5er Fest 2004. But a good running 10:1 3.5 is impressive, especially in L jet, which probably gives a better torque curve, but less absolute HP than Motronic. With admittedly very old tires, once I got my euro 3.5 running right in my E12 I could spin the tires at will in first gear. Clutch out, just push down on the loud pedal and they'd spin. M5s are heavy, M5 territory? I dunno. Maybe. Maybe not. They might, or might not, have hit 300HP, but with 3.9, higher compression and more cam I'm sure it was/will be impressive. I'm suspect an M5 would pull it on top speed, but up to 80 or 100 MPH it might be a contest.
I am looking at the 1993 article right now, can you believe this was nigh on 30 years ago?! They said to get to 300 hp you had to use yellow D-jet injectors, and even got 57 hp on a test with a D-jet blue injector. Whatever the result, the car seemed powerful. Yeah, I remember seeing pictures of the car (Barnyard Bimmer) on First Fives concerning the 5er Fest back in 2004. I believe Jay Jones still owned the car at the time. Back in those days there were still a healthy number of e12s around.

Proven fact, the 2 valve Euro M30B34 motor (3,430 cc) was hotted up by Alpina for Group A racing in several countries (635CSi), and that motor made 295 hp at 6,900 rpm, and they had an Evo 2 version later that made 310 hp at 7,200 rpm. And of course the e34 M5's S38B36 motor made 315 hp at 6,900 rpm. This is all DIN hp. Group A racing was pretty production car related, so yes, you can get big numbers out of a M30.

MM says they used a 95mm bore piston on the 3.7L and 3.9L, an 86mm stroke on the 3.7L, 90mm stroke on the 3.9L. The M88 and M90 motors had a 93.4mm bore (and people thought that was pushing it) and BMW used 94mm when racing the IMSA CSL e9 coupes in the mid '70s. BMW X-rayed the blocks to check if there was enough cylinder wall to make it safe.

From Jim Rowe's description of the MM 3700 Rally engine's internal work, the 285 hp dyno figure seems legit. After all the s38B35 only had 9.5:1 and smog gear. BMW's factory figures for the final toxic Euro 218 hp 635CSi was 0-60 mph in 6.8 seconds and 138 mph, for the 256 hp US M6 (s38B35) factory figures were 6.8 seconds and 142 mph.
e12euro
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Re: And so it starts, Maeve

Post by e12euro »

gwb72tii wrote: Jul 17, 2022 11:31 PM MM is quoting about 285 hp.

If you go to their website, read the write up about their design, much of it is what someone like me would do on their own. Other than the reason for the new pistons which from an engineering standpoint is outside of my engineering background. Everything I’ve read makes sense.

As I mentioned before, I was going to attempt to rebuild the motor on my own which is within my mechanical capability. But after talking with Jim, there are more than a few areas where the tolerances are outside of my scope to measure and adjust. And there is way more to building a motor than a cam and high compression. So for once in my life I am happy to pay someone else to scrape their knuckles and pull on a torque wrench. It wasn’t a easy decision as I’ve never paid someone else to work on a car that I can work on.

The proof will be in the end result eh?
I think you made the right move. With a Motorsport engine you pay through the nose for horsepower that a M30 can get close to. Alpina's 3.5L and AC Schnitzer 3.7L were around 260 hp, not far from the M88's 286 hp. Group A racing 635CSi only used the M30. The following video is of a 295 hp coupe:

1985 Group A 635CSi

LS V8 swaps and turbo M30s would bring more power, but wouldn't be a drop in engine swap like the Metric Mechanic unit. Turbo M30 and LS swaps involve custom re-engineering, especially LS swaps. At least with a turbo M30 you could start with a M106 and build more power than the stock 252 hp, but LS swaps would involve different gearbox, special propshaft, diff and axle half shafts to handle the torque, plus all the engine wiring harness match up troubles. You would need a donor C6 Corvette, and swap a lot in. At least with the MM3700 engine the spending and work stops when you buy the motor!
gwb72tii
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Re: And so it starts, Maeve

Post by gwb72tii »

minimal progress over the past couple weeks to report. First it was framing my wife's "she shed". Then it was COVID last week. After 2-1/2 years both my wife and I caught it at the same time. bummer. Feeling better now so trying to get some things done.

Refurbished the chrome rings around the headlights. I don't have a before pic but let me say, they weren't shiny, at all. And then replaced all bulbs with the help of Daniel Stern. If you haven't used him for headlight help, he's one of the good guys IMHO.
nice and shiny
Image

Part of buying used cars is not knowing what you're getting, like frozen corroded headlight adjustment screws. Soaked them in white vinegar overnight and a lot, not all, of the rust came off. They turn now at least. So back into a fresh batch of vinegar and then assembling them with the lights into their headlight brackets which have been repainted black. That and installing a headlight relay kit as well.

Image

The Hella's are getting old, and my eyes are getting old. I'm hoping I'll be surprised when I finally drive at night. One of the challenges to living in the great Pacific Northwest is the long winter months, where its 4:30pm, its dark and its raining. Great headlights are a big deal around here and Maeve will be my daily.
Daniel Stern has volunteered to send me a list of what parts are needed to be able to install modern headlights. Maybe down the road.
Blue Shadow
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Re: And so it starts, Maeve

Post by Blue Shadow »

The € lamps were a downgrade from the Cibiés that were available in the late 80s. But since they are NLA and the better CSR Cibié is also NLA the € might be adequate. Better than US sealed beams for sure. If you need more lumens, I'm sure Daniel knows what will work best in these cars. Wonder if there is a set-up for the € buckets as they use a set of unique lamps.
gwb72tii
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Re: And so it starts, Maeve

Post by gwb72tii »

yes and there in lies the problem with trying to adapt modern headlamps to an e28.
As I mentioned Daniel volunteered to send me a list of necessary parts to be able to modify the buckets to accept newer tech lights. I'm sure he'd send it to anyone.
Galahad
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Re: And so it starts, Maeve

Post by Galahad »

I am very happy with my LED headlights, but it was a gigantic pain in the ass to fit them in the euro housings and they were seriously expensive. I would consider doing it again on a car with US headlights but not a euro one, I'm interested in seeing how your headlight performance turns out.
Blue Shadow
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Re: And so it starts, Maeve

Post by Blue Shadow »

I believe US buckets and grills are available for near nothing. Wonder if the modification would be way cheaper, way easier, and work as well. Just missing the € look.
Galahad
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Re: And so it starts, Maeve

Post by Galahad »

Blue Shadow wrote: Jul 29, 2022 11:16 AM I believe US buckets and grills are available for near nothing. Wonder if the modification would be way cheaper, way easier, and work as well. Just missing the € look.
Yeah the us buckets would be easier to use at least for the LED bulbs. You can just drop in any sealed-beam compatible unit, might need to do some trimming of the bucket to get it to fit. For the euro housings I used I needed to cut off almost the entire bucket, do a lot of epoxying, redo the adjuster system, all kinds of nonsense.
gwb72tii
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Re: And so it starts, Maeve

Post by gwb72tii »

Blue Shadow wrote: Jul 29, 2022 11:16 AM I believe US buckets and grills are available for near nothing. Wonder if the modification would be way cheaper, way easier, and work as well. Just missing the € look.
Mr.Stern would probably go this route, and suggested to me in emails with him to revert back to US buckets and grills. I'm wanting to keep the euro look and see what the upgrade in bulbs, new headlight relays etc mean for headlight performance.
Kenny Blankenship
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Re: And so it starts, Maeve

Post by Kenny Blankenship »

gwb72tii wrote: Jul 16, 2022 8:25 PM Maeve came with e34 H&R springs which is a little weird.
So, I am going to replace the springs with e28 lowering springs. As long as I’m starting from scratch, I thought I’d ask those of you that have gone through this if you have any preference between Eibach and H&R?

The last two e30’s I owned had H&R on one and Eibach on the other. Frankly I thought the Eibach rode better and the car’s stance looked better. But that may not translate over to e28’s.

Any one have an opinion?
Between the two, Eibach. I'm not a big H&R fan.

Really, the best is Dinan. But you may have to wait a looooooong time to find a set...
Mdreamer
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Re: And so it starts, Maeve

Post by Mdreamer »

[/quote]

Between the two, Eibach. I'm not a big H&R fan.

Really, the best is Dinan. But you may have to wait a looooooong time to find a set...
[/quote]

This goes to show how subjective preferences are. I really like H&Rs and I am not a fan of Eibachs at all. Unfortunately, I haven't ever driven on a set of Dinans, so I am of no use there.
gwb72tii
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Re: And so it starts, Maeve

Post by gwb72tii »

I've driven both and like the Eibachs, but the dilemma is solved Anyway.
I couldn't find a dealer that had e28 eibach springs so I bought H&R's.
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