New to me 524TD

Finally, a home for all you 524td oil burners out there.
SherlockCholms10
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

That's a good point. Likely the engine will still run even in this state, but the question really is how will it run like this? I'm actively looking for a serviceable replacement cam and rocker set . . . but if I end up ordering a brand new cam and rocker set then I'm sure I'll be replacing the spray bar. Since nearly every lobe displays significant wear, I think the issue wasn't with the spray bar assembly but rather neglectful maintenance and valve clearance adjustment. A historical search here on the forum shows many owners have had similar issues with cam wear. It makes me strongly considering running a ZDDP additive. . . I'm currently running AR9100 in my pickup truck, I'm waiting for another 2 oil change intervals to decide for myself if it is actually helping to reduce wear metals (which I determine through oil analysis).
gadget73
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by gadget73 »

Not sure you need to replace the spray bar, just clean it. Its a steel tube with some pinholes in it. Nothing some solvent and a torch tip cleaner can't put to rights. I wouldn't trust a used one to not need the same treatment. In the meantime, may as well do what you can to try to prolong the worn out cam a bit.

Problem with it being just a tube with pinholes it wouldn't take much sludge to plug them if the oil changes aren't kept up on. The turbo bearings would also not be happy about sludgey oil. Might want to check that for excess slop. These are just sleeve bearings.
SherlockCholms10
Posts: 53
Joined: Mar 20, 2022 9:11 AM
Location: Sunny Sandy Eggo, CA

Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

Yes, the turbo journals are also in need of replacement. There is significant side to side play. I suppose since this engine is going to be down for awhile, I'll go ahead and get that pulled off and take a look at the internals. Spinning the turbo over by hand it doesn't feel like there is any contact between the wheels and one of the housings, but that doesn't mean that it hasn't happened in the past.

I agree completely with what you are saying, all of these are symptomatic of running oil longer than it should have been. Could have been substandard oil, or even a quality oil that was ran too long (short tripping). Good news is that it still spins over easily by hand, and both the turbo and the cam are the two areas that would show lubrication related failure the soonest. Its raining here over the next few days, but I should be able to pull the turbo off on Friday. I'll let you know what I find.

I've got a bead on a running engine a decent haul from here. That is looking like a better option all the time.
SherlockCholms10
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Joined: Mar 20, 2022 9:11 AM
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

Pulled the rocker arms off, 6 of them show what I would call normal wear, the other 6 show what I would call abnormal wear. I'll get pictures posted this evening. The cam & rocker arms are going to be making the trip to Delta Cam in Tacoma, WA for a stock regrind. Quote was $80 to regrind cam, $4 per rocker arm. I suspect that some of the rockers aren't going to be salvageable, but the worst one had a divot worn about .020 deep. While reducing the base circle isn't ideal I'm not going to lose anymore than a few thousandths. I don't expect to exceed the capabilities of the stock cam with this engine, and ~150 is much better than the $1K plus that it would run for new parts from BMW. Anyone know if the rocker arms are made from chilled iron?

It would seem that this was caused by lack of valve lash adjustment, combined with running oil longer than it should have been. Once this all goes back together I'll be sure to use oil analysis and monitor the wear here. I'm still waiting on parts from Europe, as well as tracking down the front 1/2 of a driveshaft. Interior is already ripped apart, I'm contemplating taking apart the blower motors and heater core/evaporator coil assemblies and resealing everything with new foam. Looks pretty intense.

I've found this forum to be very useful with posts running back over 15 years. I'll pay it forward a little for the next guy; Ford used the same engine and parts are available using their part numbering system. Rocker arms are E45Y-6564-A. Camshaft is E45Y-6250-A. I was able to pickup a complete set of 12 NOS rocker arms for $150. This was nearly $500 cheaper than the discounted BMW dealerships. Unfortunately no camshafts are available via this route.
gadget73
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by gadget73 »

I tend to shop the Ford parts, partly because its what I have, but mostly because of pricing. There weren't all that many diesel Lincolns made in the first place, and the survival rate has to be quite low. The most common response I get with mine is "I didn't even know they made that".

80 bucks to fix the cam is a whole lot cheaper than I'd have expected it to be. I just wonder if its going to end up changing the clearances enough to exceed the ability of the rockers to be adjusted. Not sure if they exist for this, but ages ago I had an air cooled VW with that problem, and the solution was a thing called a lash cap. Basically it looked like a small metal cup that sat on the valve stem to make it a bit longer so it would work.
1st 5er
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by 1st 5er »

gadget73 wrote: Apr 19, 2022 8:28 AM ... Not sure if they exist for this, but ages ago I had an air cooled VW with that problem, and the solution was a thing called a lash cap. Basically it looked like a small metal cup that sat on the valve stem to make it a bit longer so it would work.
Reminds me of the 302'd '91 Bronco we had many years ago that collapsed a lifter. I pulled the valve cover, rocker, and the affected push rod. Inserted a GM 350 push rod, reassembled everything and proceeded on down the road for several more years.
gadget73
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by gadget73 »

There is a right fix, and a right now fix. Sometimes things are only worth so much effort. If it worked for years like that, I can't exactly say it wasn't right enough.
SherlockCholms10
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Joined: Mar 20, 2022 9:11 AM
Location: Sunny Sandy Eggo, CA

Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

SherlockCholms10 wrote: Apr 06, 2022 8:30 AM I've got a bead on a running engine a decent haul from here. That is looking like a better option all the time.
I've decided that due to the extended unknowns with the engine installed, I've taken a 90* turn and we are now headed on an entirely different route.

Image
SherlockCholms10
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

"Euro spec" M21 flywheel arrived today!! I'll get some pictures up this afternoon. It's all starting to come together now.
1st 5er
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by 1st 5er »

SherlockCholms10 wrote: May 09, 2022 11:26 AM ... It's all starting to come together now.
:clap:
gadget73
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by gadget73 »

Sometimes the unknown is good. Other times its an expensive pit of sadness.
bensocket
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by bensocket »

Welcome to club!

If you have any questions or need photos, let me know.
I really suck at checking the forums but I will try to keep a eye on it.

Or you can reach me on telegram.https://t.me/+Efqtq3g-KGNhs4MB

I have a 85 that i had the motor out a few times and upgraded turbo added intercooler and manual swapped it.


https://ibb.co/tmDdXTX
1st 5er
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by 1st 5er »

Been wondering about this build.

Thanks for poking the bear.
SherlockCholms10
Posts: 53
Joined: Mar 20, 2022 9:11 AM
Location: Sunny Sandy Eggo, CA

Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

Greetings all! It does appear that I fell off the face of the Earth doesn't it. The build hasn't progressed much. I successfully moved across the country. Got the old engine removed and the new one swapped in, only to find out that the crankcase is leaking to the point 1-2 quarts will drain overnight. I've got to pull the engine out again - I think its the rear main seal. I just received the parts to fix that last week, hopefully more progress will be made this upcoming weekend.

In the interior, the carpet has cleaned up remarkably well, and I am trying to put the dash back together. Haven't made much progress on that front, and since I wasn't the one that took it all apart it has proven rather difficult. I'm contemplating pulling what is left installed entirely apart and thoroughly inspecting the HVAC coil and blower motors, but I haven't gotten too far into that yet. Any recommendations on that?

I'll get some photo's taken and update the thread hopefully next week.
gadget73
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by gadget73 »

thats a heck of a leak. I wouldn't think the rear main seal is low enough in the pan where it could even leak that much. Normally the oil level is below the throw of the crankshaft just to keep it from dragging in the oil and creating a bunch of foam and load for no good reason. I could believe a cracked pan though, or if it has the low oil level sensor, a leak there would dump out about a quart or so. No idea if BMW pans got that, but the Ford ones do. Possible they all had the hole, and some were plugged off?
SherlockCholms10
Posts: 53
Joined: Mar 20, 2022 9:11 AM
Location: Sunny Sandy Eggo, CA

Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

The work continues, collecting parts and working on the interior. Found the gas pedal completely rusted through the floorboard. Provided a convenient excuse to just go ahead and strip the interior down the rest of the way. Meanwhile I am still collecting parts. Currently I am in need of:

1. The brake backing plate for the Drivers side Rear wheel
2. The piece that installs into the bottom of the Diesel fuel filter. I believe its the water in fuel sensor?

Hoping those of you with some parts cars available will take a look and see if you can help me get this one back on the road.
gadget73
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by gadget73 »

I don't have one, but can confirm the thing in the bottom of the fuel filter is the water in fuel sensor.
SherlockCholms10
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Joined: Mar 20, 2022 9:11 AM
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

gadget73 wrote: Nov 04, 2022 8:23 AM I don't have one, but can confirm the thing in the bottom of the fuel filter is the water in fuel sensor.
When changing the fuel filter, is there an o-ring that needs to be replaced regularly? The parts breakdown on realoem shows there is one. I’ll get a picture of the current setup. Looks like it was jb welded onto the filter.
gadget73
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by gadget73 »

Mine has no loose O ring, but there is one built into the fuel filter. Basically looks like what you'd find in any common spin-on oil filter.
SherlockCholms10
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Joined: Mar 20, 2022 9:11 AM
Location: Sunny Sandy Eggo, CA

Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

Forward progress continues to happen: Got the new engine pulled out again, changed the seal from the Timken (had spring) to the updated corteco version. Install went significantly smoother than last time. Could be because I wasn't trying to work around an engine stand, but I think the corteco part was just better made. Got the flywheel installed, then realized I didn't have the big metal washer - so I am once again waiting on parts. Getting closer every day though. Spent some time going through my stock of fuel filter assemblies (I've got 4). They all had some degree of rust and/or problems with the heater assembly. I was able to assemble one that should work from what I had on hand; still missing the WIF sensor for the bottom of the filter canister, but I know a guy that says he has one available for me to purchase.

I've been looking at the EGR and vacuum system and I think I'll be stripping that system down substantially. More to follow on that as I get further down the installation road. I'm thinking remove EGR valve, fabricate block-off plate that will also serve to mount an EGR probe. Looking at the mess of vacuum tubing trying to figure out what I still need for the injection pump, brakes & cruise control and what is just for the EGR system.

In the meantime, I've turned my attention to the transmission. There is very little play in the gearbox itself, which I'm quite happy about. I sourced the correct driveshaft out of a '88 528e (the transmission is out of a '88 528e and has the big guibo). Took the shifter completely apart and polished all the pivot shafts. I'll replace a few of the bushings and probably replace the yellow shims (which literally fell apart in my hands) with some oil-lite bronze washers. The plan is to install the engine and transmission together as one.

Was working more on the interior, the pedal mounting bracket has rusted away, and there is a hole straight through the floorboard. The plan on that one is to pull the carpet entirely and inspect for additional corrosion, then weld in some patch sheet metal. I've noticed the original carpet padding is disintegrating, so I'll probably pull all of it and replace it with one of the soundmat products that is readily available now.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/38923914@N06/52487020170
gadget73
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by gadget73 »

so it was definitely the rear main seal, not some other problem in the same neighborhood?

If the filter assembly is not horribly rusty, soaking it in Evap-o-rust or vinegar for a while ought to help. The head itself i believe is aluminum or zinc so it can't actually rust, but it can stain. Wouldn't take all that much to lift rust stains out. I don't know what the heater is made of, never looked all that close at it.

I don't recall the egr system being super involved on the vacuum side. I want to say its a line from the vac manifold to the regulator, regulator to the solenoid, solenoid to the valve. May be a check valve in that loop somewhere too.

http://e28-535i.com/524td/M21%20vacuum%20diagram.jpg

is the Ford diagram. No idea if BMW got the AC switch, but if it does you should be able to plumb that straight to the vac manifold. On a Ford, when the vacuum is below some amount it shuts down the AC compressor. The only time there isn't enough vacuum to operate the switch is when the engine isn't running, so basically it serves to let the engine crank without the compressor being powered. Not really sure if its supposed to do that, but thats what mine does.

There is also the control side. There is the switch on the side of the throttle lever, the controller, and the solenoid. If your injection pump is purely mechanical the crank sensor is also used. If you have the electronic pump, the crank sensor is used for both EGR and injection pump.

I left all that stuff in place on mine, but the line down to the valve is blocked off. Wasn't motivated to try to get that valve off the manifold with it all in the car, and unhooking the line keeps it shut just as well as blocking it.

the vacuum on the injection pump should be a line from vac manifold to the pump with a tee in it. Pump side of the tee goes to the lower port on the boost compensator, which is the thing with the torx set screw sticking straight up. The other leg of the tee goes to the flying saucer altitude compensator thing. Top connection on the boost compensator goes to the intake manifold, should be a port sticking down near the over-boost valve. That all works the boost compensator system, as altitude increases the flying saucer thing bleeds some vacuum off so it takes more boost to overcome the spring in the boost compensator in order to shove the diaphragm down and add fuel. There are two connections on the flying saucer and I'd be lying if I could tell you for sure which the line goes to. The other one is open. I *think* the one in the center is open and the outer one gets the line but confirm that.

whatever else is left should be pretty simple, but I do not know the BMW accessories.
SherlockCholms10
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

Status update. Yes it was mostly leaking through the rear main seal, however it appears I still have a slow leak from the oil pan, so it appears my attempt to glue it on with only RTV wasn't successful. So I'll take the pan back off and use one of the Mehle cork gaskets I've got somewhere, in the hopes it seals a little better. I tried ordering a paper one about 6 months back (paper gaskets ftw imo) but it was dried and cracked in half.

Replaced the seals in the transmission, getting ready to fill it with ATF. Coming together nicely.

On the interior, I took apart the rest of the wiring in preparation to remove the HVAC boxes. Getting ready to pull those and do a full rebuild outside the car. I want to pull them in order to remove the carpeting and finish stripping the underlayment and evaluate exactly how much rust damage needs to be repaired. I'll probably take the carpet to the local self-carwash and spray it down pretty thoroughly.

Found some more prior owner hack/slash damage to the wiring harness. I'm going to head down to the pick-your-part and see if I can find another piece to the harness that isn't so chewed up. Also decided to go ahead and fully disassemble the engine wiring harness and right the wrongs that were done in there.

Seems small, but making small progress. I guess thats pretty good considering we are entering holiday season at breakneck speed. I can already see that I'm not going to have the car in running shape by the time 2023 arrives. New goal is prior to July 2023. Lots to do between now and then.
gadget73
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by gadget73 »

I'm usually more a fan of rubber gaskets but thats from too much experience with leaky cork valve covers and oil pans on old American engines. I honestly have no clue what these engines have for pan gasket options. I've never had reason to remove a cast aluminum pan either, all my leakers have been stamped steel.
SherlockCholms10
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Joined: Mar 20, 2022 9:11 AM
Location: Sunny Sandy Eggo, CA

Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

Agreed 100%.
I'm not sure if Ford used the same oil pan, but in the 524td, it's a stamped steel oil pan. I've had decent luck with cork gaskets - the trick is to slather them with Permatex #3 - Aviation and let it dry for 5-10 minutes before putting the gasket on the pan, then slather the other side and install. I mean, if I had a choice, it would be a paper gasket, but it seems that the only thing available is rubberized cork. I think torque spec on the pan to engine bolts is something like 5-7lbft. There's also like 40 bolts. Should be plenty good for cork.
gadget73
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by gadget73 »

sounds like they don't. Mine is a double-hump thing with two drain plugs, pretty sure its cast aluminum. Definitely doesn't look like a stamped steel pan. Same basic shape as the V8 gas engine pan, which makes sense because it has to clear the same subframe. The steering rack is about 1/3 of the way back along the length of the engine so there is a high spot to clear it.

the pan actually makes dealing with the rack annoying. The gas engine pan has enough clearance that I can pull the rack forward just a bit to clear the lip on the subframe and drop it out. With the diesel, there is so much pan that the rack won't move forward enough to clear that lip without jacking the engine up. 8 quarts vs 5.
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