New to me 524TD

Finally, a home for all you 524td oil burners out there.
Galahad
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by Galahad »

I got some photos of the engine bay of my td, here's one:

ImageUS e28 524td by Holy Grail Labs, on Flickr

The rest are in this Flickr album.

I'll have some time tomorrow to try for detailed photos of anything specific you need.
Mine is mostly stock best I can tell, but it's got over 340k miles and I don't know what's been done to it.
SherlockCholms10
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

Thank you so much!! That is very helpful, I think that points me in the right direction for most things there really is only one thing I need specific photos of at the moment. On the big wiring harness there are 2 clamps that secure it to the body, can you try to show me where yours are mounted? Here is a picture of what I’m meaning.

https://flic.kr/p/2naWfHU

It appears that one is right before the branch off to the engine, so I’d imagine being behind the intake on the firewall, and perhaps the other is near the fuse box?
Galahad
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by Galahad »

I found one on the back of the injection pump, I think this is the one near the fusebox like you thought. Couldn't find the other one, everything is really cramped right now.
ImageEngine harness hold down by Holy Grail Labs, on Flickr
SherlockCholms10
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

Thank you! That’s a good start for me, I didn’t expect it to be mounted there by the fuel pump. I completely understand what you mean about everything being cramped in there, I’ve spent hours looking at pictures trying to figure out how this is routed.
SherlockCholms10
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

Well, the poop gets deeper as they say. Spent some time looking at the wiring harness this morning, making progress. I've got it routed behind the engine, and I've now got a pretty good idea of how it is supposed to route.

Problem 1 that was encountered: Injector #4 looks the same as all the others, with no wiring protruding.
Image

Problem 2 that was encountered: There is no wiring coming out of bottom of the injector pump, and there is no solenoid present like the all mechanical pumps have. The two blade connectors are present, I'm referring to the one that is supposed to be at the bottom.
Image
Image

Pictures posted, but both of these developments are very strange indeed. I've got a bead lined up on the special injector, and I've heard these are near unobtainable, but I'm not at all sure how to proceed with the injection pump. It seems that one of the previous owners may have made a "field expedient modification" to the wiring harness, and I'm not sure what was trying to be accomplished by this.
Image

In other news, aftermarket steering wheel & course thread momo mount has been removed. Still can't find where the turn signal is supposed to connect, does anyone know if there are multiple different connectors that BMW used on E28 turn signals? Perhaps the PO swapped this out with another and its not compatible. I also noticed that several of the connector shells for the HVAC control groups have been popped open, looks like some pins maybe were swapped around.

So once again, its off to realOEM and the ETM.
Galahad
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by Galahad »

It sounds like this'll be an adventure at least, good luck.
Also, your photos are effective at showing what you want which will certainly be helpful.
SherlockCholms10 wrote: Mar 28, 2022 11:29 AM Pictures posted, but both of these developments are very strange indeed. I've got a bead lined up on the special injector, and I've heard these are near unobtainable, but I'm not at all sure how to proceed with the injection pump. It seems that one of the previous owners may have made a "field expedient modification" to the wiring harness, and I'm not sure what was trying to be accomplished by this.
Image
This is definitely not stock - very odd. I would have expected the original connector to still be there.
gadget73
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by gadget73 »

The unplugged switch on the throttle linkage is the throttle closed switch for the EGR system.

No lift sensor on #4 and no electronic stuff on the pump makes me think someone converted it. The advance thing on the mechanical pumps is just for cold starts. It will work without it, but cold starts might be rough. I notice your cold start high idle thing is missing some parts from earlier pics. Should be a thumb wheel on the cable that contacts the throttle lever to pull it open a bit when cold.

honestly if you don't have the computer controlled pump, the special injector isn't needed. That pump looks mighty shiny, like its been worked on in the not distant past.

also the oil sep has no drain tube on it, but thats easy.

Not sure whats going on with the vampire splice things but that looks like the over-boost pressure switch connector. Should plug into the bottom of the blow off valve on the bottom of the intake plenum. BMW did something kind of dumb with this one IMO. If it over-boosts, your oil pressure light comes on. I suppose the idea is to inspire panic and a throttle lift? Maybe someone was trying to have it operate a dedicated over-boost lamp instead. I'd ditch the splices and paint over the damaged insulation with some liquid electrical tape. I absolutely hate those things.
SherlockCholms10
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

Blowoff valve connector, that’s very interesting. I wouldn’t even have thought there would be a connector for that. 2
The compression on these engines is relatively high, so I guess I can understand why it’s factory limit is 13psi, but that is a ridiculously low number for a diesel. I will take a look at that tomorrow. I will also look for some more pieces of the injector pump - you are correct that it looks relatively clean. It was spray painted silver, and the engine is a full bronze. The injectors are like full on gold. Very strange and already beginning to flake off. The used vacuum pump arrived today, when the valve cover comes off for installation I will likely take a wire brush to it.

I spend a decent amount of time working on the car today and make some progress. The turn signal connector was located underneath the clutch/brake pedal bracket. The prior owner (PO) must’ve just slapped it in there without paying much attention. There are still several connectors without a home, I’ll post a picture of that tomorrow. My suspicion is that they belong to the now removed automatic, and it’s control box. Are there any connections or junctions that need to be modified now that it’s becoming a manual car? If not, then I think it’s time to begin working on the transmission installation, but still waiting on many parts for that.
Galahad
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by Galahad »

The boost limit may have more to do with the efficiency curve of the turbo and the lack of an intercooler. I haven't looked into it at all; I'm sure there's other people that would have more informed thoughts.
There's no electronic control on the td transmissions. There is an auto-only connector (9 pins, 3x3, potentially with a 1 pin pigtail next to it) that's used for the gear selector, it'll be near the window switches. You need to short two pins together to convince the starter relay you're in park or neutral - I stuffed a washer in the plug in my swap car at least for right now. Use the ETM to figure out wire colors; I think you need to short either of two brown wires to the black one, but I did all that almost a year ago. You'll also need to hack the reverse light switch into the reverse line of the same connector, the car won't care that you're telling it you're in park and reverse at the same time. The only other wiring difference between auto and manual that I can think of is the clutch switch which is used to turn off cruise control when you shift - don't be an idiot and you're fine leaving it alone.
gadget73
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by gadget73 »

The connector is just for an over-pressure switch. Whenever boost exceeds some value, I think right about 1 bar / 15 psi it closes and the lamp comes on when the valve opens. Its not electronically controlled or anything like that.

And yeah the low pressure is partly the lack of intercooler, and probably partly durability. At relatively low boost the engine isn't under a lot of stress. Its also not that fantastically low considering the era either. I think the Mercedes diesels of the time were around 8 psi.
SherlockCholms10
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

More forward progress made today. The clutch reinforcement plate was received and installed. Another issue from the PO found and corrected, the clutch master cylinder was installed on the wrong side of the pedal bracket. I discovered this after installing the plate, and pressing the pedal to the floor. There was a crunch sound and it appeared the rod had bent. After I took the linkage apart and moved it to the other side of the pedal bracket, it cycles smoothly now. Hopefully nothing internally broke, guess I'll find out once I finally get the transmission installed and start bleeding the system.

I spent some time looking at the injection pump and comparing it to the breakdown on realoem. You are correct, I am missing some pieces, the thumbwheel being among them. Interestingly enough some of that assembly is present. I will start looking for parts and try to get that resolved. In staring at the pump with a flashlight, I noticed two brown wires hanging down towards the engine oil pan. When I first saw these wires, I had assumed they were for the oil level indicator sensor in the oil pan, but I am now fairly certain they are the two missing wires that link the R118 injection pump to the ECU. Perhaps I need to follow up on the special #4 injector. I'll get a picture of the connector this afternoon, but in the meantime I found a picture I took a few days ago that shows these two wires on the left side of the picture next to where the oil dipstick mounts to the block:

Image

Vacuum pump came in, I've just got to find or purchase the mounting hardware to get that wrapped up, then I can continue addressing the wiring nightmare in the engine bay. Some other things that need to be addressed are to find the bracket that mounts on the end of the starter, get the starter tested, and continue trying to figure out what else is missing. Accelerator pedal bushings are beyond gone, I'll get some delrin ones placed on order. . . its all the small stuff, but there is one huge glaring issue that I need to address: The flywheel and clutch.

Yesterday, I took the only flywheel that came with the car (that looked like it would fit correctly) to the machine shop. I was asking for 3 things: (1) clean the metal up using soda blasting or some other type of non-abrasive media. (2) use the factory flexplate as a template to drill holes and transfer the 6 tachometer pins into the new flex plate (3) skim the clutch contact surface to clean it up as best they are able.

Image

I was very surprised that they refused all 3 requests. I was told this is a dual mass flywheel (which I knew it was prior to my visit), but consequently it is a scrap item and cannot be surfaced or blasted. There is a fabrication machine shop at the other end of town that I will be visiting today, to see if they will entertain my request. My thoughts are drilling and reaming some blind holes using a template are among the most basic of machinist tasks, and one I would most certainly do myself if I had access to a large enough drill press or vertical mill.

If I am unable to have this flywheel modified, I am back to this journeys origin regarding the clutch/transmission installation. I've inquired at the usual sources regarding the factory 524td flywheel, but it seems to be out of stock everywhere. The other option is to order the Valeo single mass flywheel kit from ECStuning, but I would need to find someone to drill and ream the blind holes for the 6 pins. Does anyone have any recommendations?
Galahad
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by Galahad »

I have a RHD engineering flywheel on my swap car - it's pretty light but costs significantly less than the Valeo kit. I'd contact them and see if the m20 flywheel would work on the diesel, it mentions DMF conversions on the page. They were pretty quick about replying to my questions.
SherlockCholms10
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

I took a look at their website, looks interesting, but I'm not sure if there would be enough room to mount those 6 pins. That is the long pole in the tent as of now, and while it might be minor to some people, having a dead tachometer constantly staring me in the face is not an option for me.

Good news is that even though most companies here in the U.S. say they are "out of stock" I found 40 sitting in a warehouse in Germany. So I may just go that route, and add a Sachs 618 sport pressure plate for the E30. This would probably be the best "fix it once and be done with it" solution, but I'm not sure I want to lay out $700 to get it done.

Fabrication shop was closed today, so I'll have to give that another try tomorrow. If that's not an option, then I'll likely be going the OEM route instead of the Valair one.

Spent some time looking at the injection pump parts breakdown. Unfortunately many of the parts I need simply aren't available from BMW anymore. Anyone have a good vender for parts on the VP-20?
gadget73
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by gadget73 »

don't specifically but if you know people into 12v Cummins engines, the early ones ran the VE pump. Same thing, just no electronic controls. I think they call the advance part the "ksb solenoid".
SherlockCholms10
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

Finished sorting through the boxes of parts that came with the car today. Found the clutch hard line! Also found what l believe is the rest of the cold start assembly. I just need to figure out how to install it. There doesn't appear to be a readily available spot for it to bolt on.

I also found the support bracket for the back of the starter. So I need to get the starter thats not frozen with corrosion over to the Napa to get it tested. If someone knows of a good electric shop that will rebuild the starter and alternator I will just send them out, please send me your recommendations.

Image

Regarding the flywheel issue, I think I am leaning towards ordering the Factory Euro one. I think this is the only way I would have the timing pin hole in the correct location, thoughts?
Galahad
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by Galahad »

I'm a bit confused about the flywheel: why do you think it has 6 pins? On the gas cars it only has 3 (like in the photo of the DMF you posted). It's possible the diesels are different - I don't know either way.
SherlockCholms10
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

Yes from what I understand in the gas cars there are 2 sensors in the bell housing that derive that information. On the diesel, there are 3 pins on one side that mate to the pressure plate, but on the other side - the one that faces the engine - there are 6 small pins that protrude about .250”. If you scroll up you will see a picture of my dual mass flywheel with the flex plate in the background. While the side that is up is the rear side you can see the base of 3 of the pins. I’ll get you a photo of the other side so you can see what I’m talking about.

https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/forum/ ... p-underway
Galahad
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by Galahad »

Oh ok it's a diesel specific thing. That'll make my swap plans harder, thanks for the heads up!
gadget73
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by gadget73 »

yep, thats the high idle stuff. Those were removed on mine too, but I found it in the trunk. The fuel had been cranked up enough on the pump that the high idle wouldn't let the throttle close enough to get a reasonable idle rpm. One of the multiple things I fixed.

I'll see if I can get some pics of where mine is mounted.
SherlockCholms10
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

Any luck on those pictures?
gadget73
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by gadget73 »

Forgot I can't actually post pictures on here. I don't have an image hosting account anywhere and this software doesn't allow for uploads.
Galahad
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by Galahad »

gadget73 wrote: Apr 04, 2022 3:00 PM Forgot I can't actually post pictures on here. I don't have an image hosting account anywhere and this software doesn't allow for uploads.
If you email me the photos I can post them to this thread
gadget73
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by gadget73 »

see if this will show you what you need

http://gadget73.com/images/84_Continent ... on%20pump/

those are from when I had the pump out on the bench just before it went out for rebuild

didn't have my login info handy earlier to dump it in the folder. Nothing actually on that domain besides random pictures that I needed to put somewhere.
SherlockCholms10
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

Thank you very kindly for the pictures! That does help me, and I continue to sort out issues. Unfortunately this project has just become substantially more complicated as it seems that I am in need of a camshaft. I'll be uploading pictures shortly. From what I've seen doing a review of old posts on this forum, it seems that the camshaft on this engine is a common wear item. From what little I know about metallurgy, I would imagine that these cams are ground at the factory and then surface hardened - as soon as that surface hardening wears through metal comes off at a rapid pace. I guess I can say for certain that this engine was not "freshly rebuilt" as the seller had originally stated. Oh well. Good news is that I was able to turn the engine over using a ratchet and there is no binding. I can feel and hear the engine building compression. So off to the usual parts vendors, looks like I'm going to need a camshaft and a set of rocker arms, I didn't measure but the tolerance is .005, and it is well beyond that on several lobes. $OUCHH$

Image

Image
gadget73
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by gadget73 »

Pull that oil sprayer pipe off and have a look at it. Just a theory but I suspect you'll find the holes are at least partly blocked above the worn lobes. Not that it will do anything to reverse the wear, but it may prevent the next one from failing.
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