New to me 524TD

Finally, a home for all you 524td oil burners out there.
SherlockCholms10
Posts: 43
Joined: Mar 20, 2022 9:11 AM
Location: area of Savannah, GA

New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

Good morning all,

I am the new owner of a 524TD, and that I found on the local marketplace. I am looking forward to many discussions with the membership, as it is going to be a project. I’ll have to get some pictures, but from what I was told, the prior owner (a BMW tech) had been in the midst of a engine rebuild and manual transmission swap and either had health problems or passed away. Then the car sat for several years and now I’ve got it. The transmission is out, the interior is all ripped apart and the engine (supposedly freshly rebuilt) is physically installed but needs all the small stuff done to finish the install.

Supposedly all the parts required to put this back together are there, I guess I will find out. This is my first BMW, but I have a lot of experience with Diesel trucks, so I’m not a complete novice. I’ll get some pictures up tomorrow, start sorting through the parts and try to pick a starting point.
Last edited by SherlockCholms10 on Mar 22, 2022 12:24 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Galahad
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Re: New 524TD intro

Post by Galahad »

Welcome! I got a my first 524td last month, although it's in fewer pieces than yours. This sounds like a fun project!
gadget73
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Re: New 524TD intro

Post by gadget73 »

Welcome

Mine is a Lincoln and came to me in one piece but I've taken different things apart to fix it. Don't know anything about the rest of the car but the engine is the same at least. I've picked up projects that other people started more than once though. Half the battle is figuring out what you have and what you don't, and where its all supposed to go.
SherlockCholms10
Posts: 43
Joined: Mar 20, 2022 9:11 AM
Location: area of Savannah, GA

Re: New 524TD intro

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

Thanks for your kind replies all. I'm waiting for the sun to come up in order to take some decent pictures. It rained fairly heavily here this weekend so I suppose I'm about to find out if there are any leaks as well.

This car is probably the most intense project I've taken on, it is a mess; but I know that 524's weren't imported in mass to the USA, so I suppose its a worthwhile endeavor. I need to sort through all the parts that were included with this car, right off I see there is at least 1 spare valve cover, and 3 flywheel's. The seller told me that some of these parts may be to a 3-series car he was working on, but since that car is gone now it was all included with this one.

Galahad the praises that were sung about your fuse panel upgrade prompted me to go ahead and place an order for it.
SherlockCholms10
Posts: 43
Joined: Mar 20, 2022 9:11 AM
Location: area of Savannah, GA

Re: New 524TD intro

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

Well I made it over to the car this morning. The scale of this project is more than a little overwhelming, which is somewhat surprising to myself as I mentioned, I've owned a 7.3L OBS F-350 for nearly 10 years and short of rebuilding the engine or transmission, I've touched probably every other fastener on it. I've just got to remember to take small bites and eventually it'll get there. Currently the hood is stuck closed, I can see the hood release trying to release, so I know the cable isn't broken but it doesn't spring up. I suspect it will take two people to open the hood. I've seen in there once (just prior to purchasing) so I know that there is an engine installed, but I've got no idea if there is a starter mounted or not (but I did find 2 used ones in the trunk), and I recall hoses and wiring everywhere so who knows what all is missing. I can't remember if a radiator was installed, but there is a Behr and an aftermarket in the back seat, so I suppose I'm covered there.

Some good news, It has the powered seats, and they both appear to be complete (some wear on the vinyl). and a small tear - perfectly useable. Also the drivers seat is not bolted down, I was worried I didn't have the mounting bracket, however it is present. I also found 2 kick panels in the trunk (behind the Getrag 260), so it does appear that most of the trim is there. There is a brand new momo steering wheel mounting collar in the trunk (if anyone is interested in this please send me a PM), and I also found a shifter knob that matches the wood steering wheel inside the glove box. I'm a stickler for OEM, so those will both be going down the road as well, along with the body kit that is 1/2 mounted. There is very little rust throughout the car, I was mainly worried about the floor pans but everything I can see is solid. Oh and someone's already put a SAAB 9000 sunroof on it, but the fabric slider is not present - this will need to be addressed sooner than later.

Of course bad news has to come with the good. There is a cheap plastic dash liner glued down to the factory dash. I can't stand the cheap feel these leave so I'll get that pulled off and see how bad the original is. This car is the same age as me ('85), so I'm ok with it having some bruises and scars (just like me). Also the rectangular trim that is to the left of the steering wheel is broken, so the headlight switch is flopping all around (does anyone have one that is surplus to their needs?)

I think the appropriate place to start is by trying to put the steering wheel and dash wiring back together. I've got an OEM steering wheel on the way. I'll take a better look at it this afternoon, but there are lots of connectors that seem to have nowhere to go. Also, can someone provide a picture of how the wiring is supposed to look? I'll get some tesa tape ordered today, and at least try to put this somewhat back how its supposed to go.

I'm not sure if I'm posting these correctly, I tried to post a direct link. If someone can give me some constructive criticism on my photo posting technique I'd appreciate it.
https://flic.kr/p/2n9QuvK

https://flic.kr/p/2n9QuAz

https://flic.kr/p/2n9QurM
Last edited by SherlockCholms10 on Mar 21, 2022 10:33 AM, edited 2 times in total.
gadget73
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Re: New 524TD intro

Post by gadget73 »

Could be worse, it might be a mid 2010's GM product where the factory dashboard feels like one of those cheap glue-on covers :) My DD pickup truck has that interior, and its just terrible feeling material.
SherlockCholms10
Posts: 43
Joined: Mar 20, 2022 9:11 AM
Location: area of Savannah, GA

Re: New 524TD intro

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

Thats true, it definitly could have been worse. Car build quality has definitly dropped off over the last 20 years or so. I'm sure with the current surge in inflation its about to get even worse. Even though these cars are all approaching 40 years old, I still appreciate that everything still works as well as it does.

Holy cow, I just priced out some weatherstripping for this beast. OH MY!! I would've thought that there would be better aftermarket support but even there its overpriced.
Galahad
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Re: New 524TD intro

Post by Galahad »

Thanks for the order! I'll get it shipped in a few days. Your car looks in really good shape, much better in the rust department than most of mine.
There are a fair number of connectors under the dash that don't go anywhere on most cars. I'm assuming they exist for some reason or another but they aren't labeled unfortunately.
On Flickr, hit the little share arrow in the lower right, copy the BBCode, delete everything except the img tag. Here you go:

Image

Image

Image
SherlockCholms10
Posts: 43
Joined: Mar 20, 2022 9:11 AM
Location: area of Savannah, GA

Re: New 524TD intro

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

Thanks for the info regarding posting pictures, Galahad. I'm sure I'll be able to put that to good use within the next few days. Hmm, that is interesting that there would be unused connectors on the steering wheel. I wonder why they would do that. I will just try to verify that everything is connected and then try to tuck the wiring back in, I'm assuming that the center console was removed in order to remove the automatic shifter assembly (which was located in the trunk). I am assuming that I will need to get the manual transmission installed prior to assembling the center console, so I will likely have to live with the rats nest of wires for awhile.

The manual pedal box assembly was already installed when I got the car, I assume that is why the drivers seat isn't bolted down, because one would need to lay on their back to see up there. The task for this afternoon will be to work on the steering wheel wiring some more and try to get the hood popped open.

Do these cars have any particular weak points that need to be addressed while I've got it all ripped apart? Melted fuses is one of the main ones I've come across, and cracked cylinder heads from hot rodding the injector pump, but overall they seem to be pretty robust cars.
gadget73
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Re: New 524TD intro

Post by gadget73 »

The heads seem to crack anyway, but cranking up the pump makes it happen a lot faster. The head seals on the injection pump are also an issue. Had to get mine rebuilt for that reason, though apparently its not actually that hard to re-seal yourself. Thats not unique to the BMW though, its a Bosch VE issue. Something about ULSD plus several decades old seals not playing well together. The cams seem prone to wear but that might be clogs in the oil sprayer bar. If you haven't seen under the valve cover it has a length of steel tubing end to end with a hole above each cam lobe to shoot oil on it. When that clogs, no oil and eventually no cam lobe. On the models with the electronically controlled injection pump (which is all US market 524td I believe) there is a special injector with a lift sensor. If that goes bad I don't know that replacements are available. Timing belt tensioners also don't seem to be available currently. I have one on my project list to figure out a way to modify it to allow a standard bolt-on idler to be used but I haven't gotten to it yet.
SherlockCholms10
Posts: 43
Joined: Mar 20, 2022 9:11 AM
Location: area of Savannah, GA

Re: New 524TD intro

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

Its interesting that the heads seem to crack regardless of care. . . I read somewhere that an upgraded cylinder head is available from Spain, any truth to that? Vendor? Also, where in the heck is the oil dipstick!??

I started trying to through the wiring with the steering wheel yesterday but it doesn't seem like there is much to be done. The turn signal as complete disconnected, so I need to find where that connects to. Moving on, I researched stuck hood latches on this forum last night and stumbled upon the "bang the hood with a fist while you hold the release - voila, that did the trick. I am going to need some help with routing this wiring harness, looks like it encompasses most everything from the starter, to the headlights, to things on the engine. Can someone post a picture of their engine bay so I can try to route this in the stock location?

Image

The fuel filter housing seems to be missing a few things as well. Looks like I'm missing a banjo bolt, and a couple of block off screws? Pictures of another car would be very helpful, and I would be eternally grateful if someone was willing to send a few to me. Also looks like I am missing a few relays?
Image

The Injection pump looks pretty clean, along with the engine as a whole. Tomorrow my plan is to pop off the valve cover to inspect for corrosion and try to remove the timing belt cover to inspect the timing belt. Hopefully both of those checkout without any issues. I sorted through the flywheel and clutch assemblies that were included with the car (there are at least 3), I'll get some photos of them tomorrow, I'm not sure which one I should be using. I seem to have read somewhere that the 6 pins in the flywheel are what the tachometer uses to create a signal. Any truth to that?

No starter was mounted, but the intake is already installed. I suppose I'll get the two out of the trunk and take them for testing at the local auto parts store. I'm a stickler for OEM parts, I'm assuming that at least one of them is a BMW part, hopefully that one tests good. Do I need to remove the intake manifold in order to install the starter?

Lastly, I need to start going through all the plastic coffee cans full of fasteners. Seeing as how I did not remove any of these, this is going to be fun trying to figure out where each one goes. I'll go ahead and ask for forgiveness in advance, as I'll be asking for pictures many times in the days/weeks/months to come as I try to get this car back onto the road.
gadget73
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by gadget73 »

Dipstick should be on the driver's side, supported by a bolt on the bottom side of the intake. Comes basically straight up from the side of the pan, or at least it ought to. If you find the over-pressure valve on the bottom side of the intake, the hole thats supposed to be holding the dipstick is right next to it.

No idea on upgraded heads. I've never removed mine, no idea what it looks like and frankly don't care so long as it isn't giving me problems. Mine does technically have a bad head gasket, it used to leak coolant from the rear corner. I used some magic head gasket sealer in a bottle and it quit. Not my preferred way of fixing things but it was a heck of a lot easier than yanking the head off and dealing with all the headache that was going to involve.

The filter housing is the same on mine, and its got more holes than are actually used. I think you'll find 2 of them are not drilled or tapped. Mine has no plugs at least. Mine doesn't use a banjo fitting either though, not quite sure what yours is meant to look like.

I changed the starter on mine with the intake in place. Don't really see that removing it would have helped but the intake is not hard to remove anyway.

Ford (un)helpfully specified that "no removal procedure is available at this time" for the starter in the factory service manual so I had to wing it. The bolts do come in from the back side of the car, so get out your really long extension and wobble joint. I had the ratchet back at the tailshaft of the transmission doing this job. Luckily there is a side support bracket (on mine at least) that holds the starter in position so the two bolts can be run through from the transmission side. Ford does use a different starter than BMW does so I don't know precisely how different this might be for you.

if you remove the intake, you need 3 of the gaskets. RealOEM will tell you 6, but the replacement gasket covers 2 holes per, the original I think was one gasket per hole. related to that, realoem.com may be of some use to you in figuring out what goes where. Its got factory exploded diagrams with part numbers and all that.



The crank trigger does read off the nubs on the flexplate. If yours is running the electronically controlled injection pump I believe you will need that signal for it to behave. Also if you want the tach to work I suppose but having it run right is a little more important. Mine is not the electronic pump and Lincolns got no tach, so the only thing it does for me is operate the EGR valve. I have the vacuum line to that capped. My crank sensor plug was ripped off when I got it and I spliced another on just so the connectors weren't hanging out. I have no idea if it actually works.
SherlockCholms10
Posts: 43
Joined: Mar 20, 2022 9:11 AM
Location: area of Savannah, GA

Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

Thanks for your reply gadget73. I am missing the oil dipstick entirely from my engine. I think I can see where it attaches to the block and enters the pan, right in front of the motor mount on the drivers side, there is what appears to be a boss for the tube to connect (it is currently covered in tape). That is a good sign, and hopefully did something to limit internal corrosion.

While I was sorting through the spare parts today I discovered the dipstick and tube, so I will need to get that reinstalled. RealOEM shows there is a part #8 and #9 that appear to be some type of seal against the tube where it enters the pan. Anyone have an idea of the part number and where I might be able to acquire them? Are they required? I may have discovered them inside the engine block subsystem (11431258329 and 07129952107). Can someone take a once over and let me know if I'm reading this correctly?

While I was looking at the engine, I opened the oil fill cap and looked inside with a flashlight. Everything appears to be covered with oil, albeit with some grit/dirt. Overall not too bad, and better than I had been worried about. I am fairly certain that the grit is present because there is a hole in the valve cover that looks like its supposed to have a tube protruding from the vacuum pump underneath. It is supposed to rain today and tomorrow, so I postponed opening the valve cover and timing belt cover until the end of the week or early next week when the weather is supposed to be better. I don't like the look of the timing belt cover gasket, but I want to postpone ordering a new one until I can see how it looks from the inside. Hopefully the vacuum pump is there under the valve cover, otherwise that is going to be a bad day for sure. Looking at the parts breakdown on realOEM I did discover where a metal heatshield goes on the cylinder head. Its been loose in the engine bay, so fingers crossed that I can find the vacuum pump as well as the rest of the tubing that goes over to the brake booster, which I think I may have seen in the big box of unlabeled parts.

In other news, as I was digging through the spare parts I found the transmission mount, so it does indeed look like I have all the necessary components to install the G260. The clutch master cylinder is incorrectly installed (not flush mounted against the bracket), so I will remove that, install the pedal bracing plate (that I purchased from a vender on this site) and address that. I cannot recall if the clutch master is plumbed with a hose for the brake reservoir, but I did notice that the brake reservoir has an uncut stem on the passenger side; since this is the only stem on the reservoir that I can see, it seems this is where the clutch master is supposed to tie in. Can someone verify that? Slow progress, but progress none-the-less.

Next I started working on that mess of wiring inside the engine bay. Looking at pictures online, it seems that it is supposed to come out of the firewall and immediately turn towards the drivers side, route along the backside of the engine against the firewall, and terminate around where the battery is supposed to reside. It would be very helpful if another 524TD owner could post pictures of this and how it is secured, as it isn't blatantly obvious just from looking at it. So far googling pictures of cars that have been sold in the past hasn't borne fruit. I had to order a new fuse box base as that same wiring terminates in some type of box that mounts against it. Both of those mounts have been torn off the fuse box base that is currently installed. So it looks like I'm waiting on some parts to make forward progress.

One part I know for certain I am missing is the intake muffler, which houses the factory air filter. Is this a common item to be removed/is there a better air filter that is commonly used?
Galahad
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by Galahad »

SherlockCholms10 wrote: Mar 23, 2022 12:28 PM .....I cannot recall if the clutch master is plumbed with a hose for the brake reservoir, but I did notice that the brake reservoir has an uncut stem on the passenger side; since this is the only stem on the reservoir that I can see, it seems this is where the clutch master is supposed to tie in. Can someone verify that? .....
Yes, the uncut stem on the side of the brake reservoir is for the clutch master supply line
gadget73
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by gadget73 »

I was actually working on mine last night and looked at the dipstick tube. Mine has a piece of rubber hose that connects it to the block with a hose clamp at each end. If you look up 11431258329 it appears to be a short length of hose, 07129952107 comes up as a hose clamp. I don't know what BMW calls these officially.


"hump" in the valve cover is where the vac pump goes. If there isn't a nipple sticking out of the hole, the pump is probably not installed. I believe you'd be able to see the cam through the hole if the pump isn't there too.

The factory air box shouldn't be restrictive, its a pretty big filter feeding not a whole lot of motor. I know your filter box is slightly different than mine, but I don't know if it takes the same filter. If it does, possible it was removed just because that particular filter is really hard to find. I found what was probably a 20 year old one when I got my car, and my spare parts shelf has the only two I've found since, both are 10+ years old. My plan was to figure out a solution when I run out of air filters.
SherlockCholms10
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Joined: Mar 20, 2022 9:11 AM
Location: area of Savannah, GA

Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

I will try to source a stock air filter housing. According to Rockauto, it appears that we use the same filters, however all of them appear to be out of stock. You mentioned availability was going to be difficult, perhaps I should rig up some type of BHAF type filter based on the Napa 6607. Thats probably way overkill for what I'm wanting this engine to do for me (which is maximum fuel economy while maintaining decent passing and driveability in the power band).

Gadget73, Thank you for the information about the dipstick, I will try to get that rigged up, gives me something to do while I wait for the weather to improve. I will also take a closer look through all the miscellaneous parts I've got trying to find the vacuum pump. If not, I guess its off to the classified sections.

Galahad, thank you for confirming my suspicions about the brake reservoir stem. I will try to trace these lines a little better. Measure twice cut once right? True to the German nature of this car, it seems to be turning into an electrical nightmare.

After exploring realOEM even more, it seems that the transmission mount bracket I happened upon in the box of parts is the automatic transmission mount. Anyone know if that will work with a Getrag 260, or do I need to source the correct one? I admit I should've written down the part number marked on it, something more to research I guess. While I've got everything apart, I'll try to source some polyurethane mounts to replace the factory rubber ones. I hate having to go back in there and do the job again because I reused 37 year old factory rubber bushings.
gadget73
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by gadget73 »

I was figuring on finding a roughly similar panel type filter that was a little smaller, and making an adapter plate to let me fit that into the stock housing. I haven't put all that much thought into it though. If you do end up going with something completely not-stock, just make sure you connect the crankcase breather tube to somewhere. Stock it connects to the air pipe between the filter and turbo inlet.

oh, and that timing cover seal is (or was) available. I got mine from wherever I ordered the timing belt. Wasn't real expensive as I recall.

If you're inclined to pretty things up with paint, the Duplicolor cast coat aluminum does a really nice job of looking like clean, raw aluminum.
SherlockCholms10
Posts: 43
Joined: Mar 20, 2022 9:11 AM
Location: area of Savannah, GA

Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

If one was to let the crankcase breather vent straight to the open air, would the side effect be negative? Most medium duty trucks vented directly to the atmosphere up until the late 90's. This includes all the Cummins 12V, the Navistar T444E (industrial version of the 7.3L), all without any adverse effects. Coming from my Diesel pickup background, I will say that adjusting the 7.3L CCV system to vent directly to the atmosphere is very popular as it prevents the intake tubing and turbocharger from being covered in oil residue. It should be noted that the only 'oil separator' the CCV system has in the 7.3L is a steel wool looking filter. Is the M21 oil separator something a little more effective?

I haven't really gotten there yet, but some things about this engine design are a bit confusing. For instance, the EGR system plumbs directly back into the intake tube. There is no chance for cooling or any type of filtering. Seems odd, especially when it seems that the Euro versions did not contain this feature. I assumed this was emissions related and just planned on deleting this feature once I got there.
SherlockCholms10
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Joined: Mar 20, 2022 9:11 AM
Location: area of Savannah, GA

Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

Well, I tried a test fit of the automatic bracket, looks like that's not going to work. I suppose this has already been verified by many others through the years, but a search did not readily reveal this fact. Also, it appears that the driveshaft front half isn't correct for a manual transmission either, so it looks like I'm back on the hunt for parts.

In other news, I got a used vacuum pump on order yesterday, looks like the new ones are nearly $500. No thanks.

Digging through the boxes of fastners I discovered the small hose and clamps for the oil dipstick tube. This is obviously the 37 year old hose that the engine left the factory with, so I'll take that to the napa autoparts this evening and match it up. In this treasure trove of parts that came with this car, I found 3 separate electronic boxes that seem to have something to do with throttle control. I've spent a decent amount of time now looking at pictures of M21 engine bays (still trying to figure out the wiring harness routing), but I think these electronic boxes are part of the injection pump. A look at my injection pump and it appears that there is no corresponding bracket. How would I be able to tell if the prior owner had swapped the injection pump for one of the non-computer controlled ones?
Galahad
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by Galahad »

I can probably get some photos of my TD this weekend - mine was running a month or so ago, I think it just needs fresh diesel. I would be very interested in buying a spare throttle electronics box once you figure out which you have free
SherlockCholms10
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

Thank you Galahad, I will be out of town this weekend, but if you can get me some pretty detailed pictures of the engine bay I would be eternally grateful. This would be helpful to route all the wiring harnesses correctly, but also try to figure out what I'm missing.

Before someone says it, yes RealOEM has been very useful, but its difficult to see what is missing because it only shows parts breakdowns by system, and doesn't give one the context of the way everything fits together in the engine bay. Typical 80's engineering, there are hoses, vacuum tubes, and wiring everywhere :)
gadget73
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by gadget73 »

If you don't route the crankcase breather somewhere it just makes a mess. Not really a big deal, but if you don't route it to the air filter I'd stick a small filter of some sort on it to keep the chunks out and maybe remote mount that so it doesn't spray fine oil mist under the hood.

The stock sep doesn't seem to be all that effective, or at least its not on mine and there is noticeable oil residue inside the air plumbing. No stuffing in there, its just a hollow tube with a simple baffle plate at the air cleaner end and a return to the crankcase at the other. I've considered opening it up and stuffing it with stainless wool or something. Kinda wanted to get a spare to hack on just in case that goes badly.

Mine has the EGR plumbing intact, but the vacuum line down to the valve isn't connected so it doesn't actually function.

If you can get the numbers off the side of the pump, that will tell us if yours is the electronic one or not. Off the top of my head I forget the numbering but I think its either in the Ford manuals up above, or its somewhere on here. Drawing a blank on precisely where those numbers live too but I seem to remember it involves a mirror. Side of the pump head towards the engine block maybe?
gadget73
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by gadget73 »

found it. Pump ID tag info on page 26 of this manual

http://e28-535i.com/524td/2.4L%20Diesel ... rtment.pdf

R117 is the non-electronic pump, R118 is the electronic one. Says "left side of pump" so I guess its not against the block.
SherlockCholms10
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by SherlockCholms10 »

Well, its marked R118 so I'd guess that means its computer controlled, however there isn't an advance solenoid present down at the bottom of the pump. 2 steps forward, 1 step back. Waiting on parts mainly for now.
gadget73
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Re: New to me 524TD

Post by gadget73 »

I have a suspicion that its possible to convert them but thats just me thinking out loud. The mechanical ones have a piston and a spring that does the advance. As the pump spins faster, internal pressure increases and that works against the spring under the piston. More pressure, more movement, more timing advance. The electronic ones have a weak spring under the piston, and it uses a solenoid to meter pressure to the piston to control advance. Seems to me if you removed the solenoid and changed the spring under the piston it would work like the mechanical one does. Maybe a passage needs to be blocked or something like that, don't know the finer points.

There is actually a timing advance solenoid on the mechanical ones, but its a simple on/off type used for cold starts rather than the pulse modulated job on the electronic pump.
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