New to me 524td

Finally, a home for all you 524td oil burners out there.
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Spaz!
Posts: 65
Joined: Jan 13, 2014 4:40 AM
Location: Moriarty, NM

New to me 524td

Post by Spaz! »

Hi all,
I recently scrounged up a very dusty old 524 from a local yard with the intention of swapping in an m30. I still need a few parts for the m30 though and its in a driveable but very rusty chassis so I have decided to keep the 524 a diesel for now at least.

All in all its a very straight car, previous owner told me that his uncle was trying to get it going again and that it needed a new injection pump. The price was right so I brought it home and gave a thorough scrubbing. In the process of sorting out the jigsaw puzzle of parts in the trunk I found a receipt for a new injection pump and timing belt! A little closer inspection of the pump installed on the engine leads me to believe that it is the new pump and a very tired timing belt leads me to believe the belt is "new" too. Unfortunately the rebuild date was 22 years ago!

So far I have cleaned the tank and flushed the fuel system, changed the oil, checked the timing belt and timing and ordered all new belts and hoses. I dropped in a spare battery I had laying around and after a bit of coaxing she started up!

Now, here is my problem, after getting it fired up it has a fuel knock. I checked the vac pump and line to the injection pump and it all checks out. I slacked the bolts that mount the IP to the timing plate and tweaked it a degree or two either direction. Bumping the timing changed the engine rpm but did nothing for the knock. I get a steady stream of whitish smoke from the tailpipe unless I rev the engine, then I get a puff of black smoke. While tinkering with it this evening I realised I should have a lift pump in the tank? I plumbed in a pressure gauge and get no reading or any indication that the pump is running when I touch/ listen to the plate in the trunk.

Does anyone know if there is an off the shelf replacement for the lift pump? I have a walbro gss340 but it is rated for something like 50 psi so I dont think it will be a good replacement if it will even fit the bracket.
Last edited by Spaz! on Jan 28, 2021 10:10 AM, edited 1 time in total.
gadget73
Posts: 676
Joined: Nov 22, 2017 11:30 PM
Location: New Jersey

Re: New to me 524td

Post by gadget73 »

I think the Euro models didn't have an in-tank electric, US models do. If its idling its getting enough fuel to get the job done but I can see it starving under load with a dead electric in the line. If you're getting a fuel knock sort of noise at idle and white smoke my suspicion would be injector issues. White smoke is un-burned diesel fuel, black is partly burned fuel. Honestly sounds like one of the injectors is leaky. I'd pull them and have them tested. Funky spray pattern or dribbles will cause a lot of issues, so will low pop pressure. Low compression won't do you any favors either.

I also had problems with mine smoking a lot on initial start when half of the glow plugs weren't working. It would settle out once the engine made enough heat to burn decently though. You can pull the injector timer module off and ohm check the glow plugs from the connector. If its not showing in the BMW books, the procedure is in the Ford manuals that are linked up top in the sticky along with pics of the plugs that show the pinout. Pins 1-6 on the glow plug controller line up with cylinders 1-6. You're looking for a couple ohms to ground for a good plug.

The Lincoln fuel pump is just a common external in-line job like you'd use with a carb. Outlet pressure is like 5-6 psi. Not sure what p/n BMW specified but I suspect the pressure is about the same. If anyone makes an in-tank pump intended for carbs that would get it done, provided said pump is happy with living in diesel fuel.
Spaz!
Posts: 65
Joined: Jan 13, 2014 4:40 AM
Location: Moriarty, NM

Re: New to me 524td

Post by Spaz! »

Thanks Gadget, I'm trying to track down a pop tester. After sitting for 22 years they may well be gummed up. The diesel I pumped out of it looked more like motor oil than fuel. I know I have some hokey wiring on the glow plugs too but since this doesn't clear up with the engine warmed up I don't think they a re the root cause. It also seems to get up to temp really quick. Just a few minutes of idling and the radiator is uncomfortable to the touch. I have it in the bay now and I'm gonna tinker with it a bit more.

Also I should have the new water pump and timing belt tomorrow. I'll get you the dimensions for that pulley then or maybe the next day. I hope those pics helped a bit
kingoftarmace2004
Posts: 156
Joined: Mar 15, 2018 3:34 PM
Location: Fall River Mills

Re: New to me 524td

Post by kingoftarmace2004 »

get a injection pump dial gauge. proper timing makes the world on these engines. super hard if not impossible to time by ear or without the tool. -Paul
Spaz!
Posts: 65
Joined: Jan 13, 2014 4:40 AM
Location: Moriarty, NM

Re: New to me 524td

Post by Spaz! »

Thanks King.
You don't happen to have the part number for the inline style adapter do you?
I have a dial indicator that should work but they didn't leave much room in there and I'd rather not pull the pump if I don't have to.

I tracked down a pop tester this morning, gotta pick it up at lunch. I'll pull the injectors and hopefully pop test them after work today.

Do you guys know the pop pressure for these? I dug through the BMW service manual last night but didn't see a spec anywhere.

If anyone has the timing kit for this engine I'd be really interested in it as well. I turned a pin down for the ip pulley but someone wallowed out the hole on one side. I kinda have to hold it up against the good side and slip the belt back on which is no mean feat!

I'd also be interested in a pulley if anyone has a spare.
gadget73
Posts: 676
Joined: Nov 22, 2017 11:30 PM
Location: New Jersey

Re: New to me 524td

Post by gadget73 »

per the Ford diesel diagnostics manual, 1957-2291 psi or 13,500 - 15,800 kPa
max spread from highest to lowest not to exceed 218 psi or 1500 kPa


procedure is on the last couple of pages of this along with how to check for leaks and proper spray pattern



http://www.grandmarq.net/gadget73/Ford% ... engine.pdf
Spaz!
Posts: 65
Joined: Jan 13, 2014 4:40 AM
Location: Moriarty, NM

Re: New to me 524td

Post by Spaz! »

Thanks Gadget.
I picked up the pop tester but we couldn't find the adapter set. I may have to buy one.i also found an EWK timing set on Amazon that seems to have all the pins and adapters for this engine. I'll get it coming and report back if it works. It's $65 and includes a dial indicator. Not sure I trust the dial indicator for that price but hopefully the rest will be useable
OilBurner524TD
Posts: 38
Joined: Aug 06, 2019 11:40 AM
Location: Nevada City, California

Re: New to me 524td

Post by OilBurner524TD »

Spaz!
What kit is that on Amazon? I'm hunting for the same thing myself and wasn't sure which of the 1000 offered would be the right one.

I've also been searching for the timing kit as well so let me know if you find anything!
Spaz!
Posts: 65
Joined: Jan 13, 2014 4:40 AM
Location: Moriarty, NM

Re: New to me 524td

Post by Spaz! »

Here's the one I wound up ordering. Same kit but a few bucks less on ebay. Hope it helps you out!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Diesel-Fue ... 890.l49292
OilBurner524TD
Posts: 38
Joined: Aug 06, 2019 11:40 AM
Location: Nevada City, California

Re: New to me 524td

Post by OilBurner524TD »

Awesome! It will 100% help me out. I've been at a standstill while waiting to sort this out.
(That and the incessant rain)
gadget73
Posts: 676
Joined: Nov 22, 2017 11:30 PM
Location: New Jersey

Re: New to me 524td

Post by gadget73 »

The collet clamp like these use is easier than the one I made. Mine has a set screw to clamp the indicator, and of course I got the position for the screw wrong so its on the back side.
Spaz!
Posts: 65
Joined: Jan 13, 2014 4:40 AM
Location: Moriarty, NM

Re: New to me 524td

Post by Spaz! »

Yeah they didn't exactly make that pump easy to access did they.

Does anyone have a trick for getting the #3-#4 injector lines out of the way without removing the manifold? I'd like to get all the injectors tested before the pump calibration kit gets here but I didn't buy intake manifold gaskets and my local auto parts can't get them.
OilBurner524TD
Posts: 38
Joined: Aug 06, 2019 11:40 AM
Location: Nevada City, California

Re: New to me 524td

Post by OilBurner524TD »

I found the TDC crankshaft locking pin for cheap on FCP, if you want the precision that the drill bit cannot give you.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-tdc-pin-cta-2890

$19 delivered!

No luck on the IP lock pin or the cam tool being cheap/readily available.

For intake gaskets, I made my own from the left over pieces of my old ones. My "local" BMW dealership managed to get them for me after I had made them. I think they were about $20 for all of them.
Spaz!
Posts: 65
Joined: Jan 13, 2014 4:40 AM
Location: Moriarty, NM

Re: New to me 524td

Post by Spaz! »

Thanks Oil burner. I found the second clamp on the front lines and that gave me the play I needed to get them out of the way without disturbing the manifold. I think that set I posted above comes with the crank locking pin. If not I'll just turn one down on the lathe.

Tha injectors tested within 50psi of each other. Two have small bypass but its not bad. Now to get the injection lines back in!
gadget73
Posts: 676
Joined: Nov 22, 2017 11:30 PM
Location: New Jersey

Re: New to me 524td

Post by gadget73 »

my crank pin was turned on the lathe from a shaft out of a junky motor. Just watch the total length, there is a casting feature in the way down there.


Hows the spray pattern?
Spaz!
Posts: 65
Joined: Jan 13, 2014 4:40 AM
Location: Moriarty, NM

Re: New to me 524td

Post by Spaz! »

Spray patterns looked pretty good, not quite as narrow as I'd like but only about 1.5-2cm @ 75mm
Spaz!
Posts: 65
Joined: Jan 13, 2014 4:40 AM
Location: Moriarty, NM

Re: New to me 524td

Post by Spaz! »

Does anyone have a good video of a healthy m21 idling? Mine seems awfully loud compared to the other diesels I work around. I watched a few vids but most of them didn't have great audio. Do these engines usually clatter like an old tractor?
gadget73
Posts: 676
Joined: Nov 22, 2017 11:30 PM
Location: New Jersey

Re: New to me 524td

Post by gadget73 »

I'll get one this weekend. Its supposed to be decent on Saturday.

They are a lot louder under the hood too. I don't find it to be an excessively clattery engine but with the hood open its sort of annoying to listen to for long. If the valve adjustment is way off, or if the injector timing is too far advanced it clatters a lot more too. Not sure if you re-clocked the IP or not. I can hear when the cold start advance kicks out on mine, the idle gets noticeably quieter.
OilBurner524TD
Posts: 38
Joined: Aug 06, 2019 11:40 AM
Location: Nevada City, California

Re: New to me 524td

Post by OilBurner524TD »

Heres a video I shot this morning. It was about 40 degrees out and I hadn't started her in about 2 weeks.


https://youtu.be/HWyop4ZGloE
Spaz!
Posts: 65
Joined: Jan 13, 2014 4:40 AM
Location: Moriarty, NM

Re: New to me 524td

Post by Spaz! »

Thanks guys!

I got mine re-timed last night and took it for a drive on my lunch break. It doesn't sound much different than yours Oilburner. What year is yours? Looks like it's the twin to mine.
It does have a miss once it's warm tho so I guess I have some more tuning to do.

That pump timing kit did the job but I'm not sure if recommend it. I've seen better quality at harbor freight.

It was set to 0.30mm at tdc, after a bit of tinkering I got it to 0.67mm and called it good.

It's definitely pulling harder, still no horse triple crown contender but it has some nuts now.
gadget73
Posts: 676
Joined: Nov 22, 2017 11:30 PM
Location: New Jersey

Re: New to me 524td

Post by gadget73 »

check the boost pressure if possible. Sometimes the springs in the wastegate actuator get tired and the pressure ends up on the low side. I wound mine up to the top end of factory spec and it made it much less lazy. Spec is I think 10-12psi, and the dump valve is supposed to pop at 13. I think BMW wired that to the oil pressure warning light so if that comes on at full go, thats why.
OilBurner524TD
Posts: 38
Joined: Aug 06, 2019 11:40 AM
Location: Nevada City, California

Re: New to me 524td

Post by OilBurner524TD »

Spaz, mine is an 86. I don't really have anything to compare mine to but it seems to pull alright for an 35 year old car. It feels surprisingly peppy for a turbo diesel of that eta. I've driven a few of the Mercedes of that vintage and it definitely is quicker.
gadget73
Posts: 676
Joined: Nov 22, 2017 11:30 PM
Location: New Jersey

Re: New to me 524td

Post by gadget73 »

another thing that makes them a lot slower is if the plumbing to/from the altitude and boost compensators is messed up. If one of those hoses is off or split it won't add fuel properly as boost comes up. Most of mine were in really sad shape. Some were split, and a couple of vacuum lines were just unhooked completely. Found those while working on the cruise control, but getting more zip out of the engine while fixing cruise was a nice bonus.
Spaz!
Posts: 65
Joined: Jan 13, 2014 4:40 AM
Location: Moriarty, NM

Re: New to me 524td

Post by Spaz! »

Can anyone give me a couple pics of the throttle bracket assembly. I managed to get mine back together enough to work but that's a complicated affair to sort out when youve never seen one assembled!
Spaz!
Posts: 65
Joined: Jan 13, 2014 4:40 AM
Location: Moriarty, NM

Re: New to me 524td

Post by Spaz! »

I went through the vac lines and it looks like a few need replacing so I ordered some silicone hose off of ebay, from the same folks that sell the kits for the e30, I highly recommend them. They don't have a kit for the 524 but the hose sizes are the same as any other '80s bmw. It's nice, heavy wall silicone and available in several colors.

I'd probably describe mine much like yours Oilburner so I guess a little fine tuning and I'll call it good.

I'll get a pressure gauge hooked up this weekend and see what kind of boost it's making. It sprung a leak on the thermostat housing on today's hamburger run so that's one more item on the list.

On a happier note my hood struts came in so no more broom handle holding the hood up BS! I also got her an almost new bra 😁 (wolf bonnet) for the princely sum of $48 shipped. I guess I have to get on buffing out the paint and waxing now.
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