White smoke issue

Finally, a home for all you 524td oil burners out there.
Post Reply
DariusPri
Posts: 59
Joined: Nov 02, 2016 5:13 PM
Location: Lithuania

White smoke issue

Post by DariusPri »

Hey, everyone!
I have white smoke that happens on cold start and will last for about 15mins. After that only some minor smoke is still visible.
2 years ago I got my engine head fixed, last year all the injectors were replaced, new glow plugs too.
Engine itself is working fine, no hick-ups, nothing.
Although, there's some oil in air filter housing, so some blow-by must be happening for sure if that's connected to smokiness

EDIT: So I've made this short video with the whole situation also it seems smoke are more gray than white. The car itself been sitting for a month now, so I hope that smoke during acceleration is due to that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA5JtaUWd4Q
Last edited by DariusPri on Mar 10, 2020 8:22 AM, edited 1 time in total.
bensocket
Posts: 16
Joined: Oct 24, 2017 7:39 PM
Location: East Central Pennsylvania

Re: White smoke issue

Post by bensocket »

sounds like injectors or injector pump. Just curious what happens when you disconnect the 2 wire plug located by the intake manifold?
DariusPri
Posts: 59
Joined: Nov 02, 2016 5:13 PM
Location: Lithuania

Re: White smoke issue

Post by DariusPri »

bensocket wrote:sounds like injectors or injector pump. Just curious what happens when you disconnect the 2 wire plug located by the intake manifold?
Image

Image


Are you about this one?
wire seems to be in a poor shape. What does it do? I will try that later though
danix
Posts: 267
Joined: Jul 09, 2018 4:10 PM
Location: San Francisco

Re: White smoke issue

Post by danix »

That's the wire for the 3rd injector, controls injection timing at the pump.
DariusPri
Posts: 59
Joined: Nov 02, 2016 5:13 PM
Location: Lithuania

Re: White smoke issue

Post by DariusPri »

A quick update.

Once I unplug the socket nothing really happens. What should I do about it?
I've made a short video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFDfbSYw0qY

Also did a head gasket test with this cheap tester kit, and it showed a small leak, I guess:

Image
gadget73
Posts: 574
Joined: Nov 22, 2017 11:30 PM
Location: New Jersey

Re: White smoke issue

Post by gadget73 »

Euro model, pretty sure he has no special injector or electronic pump timing. That connector should be the crank position sensor for the EGR system. 3 pin anyway yes? If so its the crank sensor. The other end of that wire will come from the trans bellhouse area near the starter. I would expect no effect at cold idle. EGR doesn't operate until the engine warms up, though I don't know offhand what temp the switch closes at. There is a cold start advance system on the non-electronic pump, but its just a simple NC switch that opens around 30C. You can usually hear when that changes at idle, the engine will suddenly rattle less. Mine typically switches within a few minutes unless its very cold out.

Coolant expands so you may just be seeing that. It will push air through until everything reaches fully hot.


White smoke at idle is usually un-burned diesel fuel. Bad spray pattern on the injector, low compression, or a bad glow plug would be my guess. Glow plug is the easiest to check. Unplug the module and you can ohm check them to ground from within the connector. Its a 6 pin connector, one terminal per glow plug. You should see under 10 ohms to ground from each pin, otherwise you've got an open plug. Old diesels do smoke a bit on first start, but it should clear up within a minute or so. Might go on longer if its very cold out. I've not run mine below about 20F (-7c) but even there it clears fairly quickly.

If its smoking grey-black on accel that also sounds like unburned fuel. Injector would be my guess there.
DariusPri
Posts: 59
Joined: Nov 02, 2016 5:13 PM
Location: Lithuania

Re: White smoke issue

Post by DariusPri »

gadget73 wrote:Euro model, pretty sure he has no special injector or electronic pump timing. That connector should be the crank position sensor for the EGR system. 3 pin anyway yes? If so its the crank sensor. The other end of that wire will come from the trans bellhouse area near the starter. I would expect no effect at cold idle. EGR doesn't operate until the engine warms up, though I don't know offhand what temp the switch closes at. There is a cold start advance system on the non-electronic pump, but its just a simple NC switch that opens around 30C. You can usually hear when that changes at idle, the engine will suddenly rattle less. Mine typically switches within a few minutes unless its very cold out.

Coolant expands so you may just be seeing that. It will push air through until everything reaches fully hot.


White smoke at idle is usually un-burned diesel fuel. Bad spray pattern on the injector, low compression, or a bad glow plug would be my guess. Glow plug is the easiest to check. Unplug the module and you can ohm check them to ground from within the connector. Its a 6 pin connector, one terminal per glow plug. You should see under 10 ohms to ground from each pin, otherwise you've got an open plug. Old diesels do smoke a bit on first start, but it should clear up within a minute or so. Might go on longer if its very cold out. I've not run mine below about 20F (-7c) but even there it clears fairly quickly.

If its smoking grey-black on accel that also sounds like unburned fuel. Injector would be my guess there.
yeah, 3 pin. Also there's no EGR on this one. Engine temperature at the time of filming was in the middle (around 90c). Also if that sensor wouldn't be working, would that mean tachometer wouldn't be working as well?

Also I'm seeing some darker smoke when accelerate swiftly to about 3k rpm.I have an injector leak off tester kit (hopefully it will fit). Will get back with results!
gadget73
Posts: 574
Joined: Nov 22, 2017 11:30 PM
Location: New Jersey

Re: White smoke issue

Post by gadget73 »

I don't know BMWs but using the crank sensor for tach makes sense. Unplug it and see if the tach stops.
I disabled the EGR on mine too. Parts are all there, but the vacuum line isn't connected to the solenoid so the valve never opens. I don't actually know if my crank sensor works. The plug was ripped off when I got the car, and I spliced a connector from a junkyard car just so I didn't have random wires and plugs hanging in the engine bay. I never tested it since the only thing it does on a Lincoln is control EGR.


Heavy accel will give some dark smoke depending on how the injection pump is set and the temperature. Mine is at factory cal according to the shop that rebuilt it, but I still get smoke if I accelerate. The more fuel your pump delivers, the more it will smoke. It shouldn't smoke at steady speed though. If its very black, the pump is set too high. When I got my car it made huge clouds of black smoke, the pump was wound up so much it was actually smoking slightly at hot idle. The wastegate was also not set correctly so the gate was partly open all the time. Between very low/late boost and way too much fuel it ran pretty badly.
DariusPri
Posts: 59
Joined: Nov 02, 2016 5:13 PM
Location: Lithuania

Re: White smoke issue

Post by DariusPri »

So the plug does register tach RPM. Also I don't have any wired injectors so I guess it's all mechanical and doesn't play a smoke role.
Today, after 2 days break I've noticed that engine was rattling a bit, which also gave some more white smoke, so I guess I definitely need to look at the injectors..

@gadget73. About the turbo, I have mine a bit different, I bought it off Ebay, but it had a bit different mounting, so I ended up using some generic wastegate to fit everything. Can a bad turbo be a reason for idle smoke?
gadget73
Posts: 574
Joined: Nov 22, 2017 11:30 PM
Location: New Jersey

Re: White smoke issue

Post by gadget73 »

if its blowing oil through maybe but it would be more of a blue-grey color I'd think. If it was pushing that much oil through the seal I'd think you would have noticeable oil consumption. Quick and simple test, pull the crossover pipe out and see if its full of oil. If oil leakage is that severe you're at risk of the engine running away on itself.
DariusPri
Posts: 59
Joined: Nov 02, 2016 5:13 PM
Location: Lithuania

Re: White smoke issue

Post by DariusPri »

I have a bottle of diesel purge lying around that I bought some time ago. Maybe that would do something?
Don't really know how to hoop up it correctly with those fuel lines, is there any images I could refer to just to be sure?
gadget73
Posts: 574
Joined: Nov 22, 2017 11:30 PM
Location: New Jersey

Re: White smoke issue

Post by gadget73 »

Did the injectors check OK?

The supply line into the injection pump runs from the filter to a connection near the front of the pump towards the timing cover. Return line comes from the banjo bolt fitting on the rear of the pump. Don't remember if that goes back to the tank or just back to the filter. Need to put both of those into the Diesel Purge container so it works.
DariusPri
Posts: 59
Joined: Nov 02, 2016 5:13 PM
Location: Lithuania

Re: White smoke issue

Post by DariusPri »

gadget73 wrote: Jun 05, 2020 9:02 AM Did the injectors check OK?

The supply line into the injection pump runs from the filter to a connection near the front of the pump towards the timing cover. Return line comes from the banjo bolt fitting on the rear of the pump. Don't remember if that goes back to the tank or just back to the filter. Need to put both of those into the Diesel Purge container so it works.
Nooo... I haven't checked the injectors fittings didn't fit (for the one I have).

Image
I'm a bit confused red arrow one must be for the return, right?
gadget73
Posts: 574
Joined: Nov 22, 2017 11:30 PM
Location: New Jersey

Re: White smoke issue

Post by gadget73 »

Looks like the supply. It goes to the drive end of the pump. The return line is off the other end, behind the boost compensator. If you follow where the injector weep lines end on the pump, thats the return line.
DariusPri
Posts: 59
Joined: Nov 02, 2016 5:13 PM
Location: Lithuania

Re: White smoke issue

Post by DariusPri »

I got my injectors tested and they're fine. Rough idling at startup persists and the smoke is blueish...
Is there anything else to do ? :roll:
kingoftarmace2004
Posts: 102
Joined: Mar 15, 2018 3:34 PM
Location: Fall River Mills

Re: White smoke issue

Post by kingoftarmace2004 »

do a compression test......
DariusPri
Posts: 59
Joined: Nov 02, 2016 5:13 PM
Location: Lithuania

Re: White smoke issue

Post by DariusPri »

kingoftarmace2004 wrote: Aug 25, 2020 3:48 PM do a compression test......
It starts up really fast, won't bad compression mean it will spin starter for longer ?

Oh and I completely forgot, one of the injectors had what I assume was oil around its housing..
gadget73
Posts: 574
Joined: Nov 22, 2017 11:30 PM
Location: New Jersey

Re: White smoke issue

Post by gadget73 »

maybe a slight leak around the injector to head seal, or cam cover leakage puddling around the injector. If the copper ring wasn't changed when the injector was last out, or if there is any dirt on the injector or head where that ring touches it can leak slightly.

Compression test is still worth doing. One weak cylinder will still start OK but won't burn clean. Either way you'll know for sure if there is a problem.

Ever checked to see how fast the engine builds boost? A lazy turbo will make for more smoke until it starts making pressure. Low boost will also do it. Factory spec is around 10 psi if I remember. If the pump shows any sign that the adjustments have been touched that might also explain it. I think these are supposed to have a collar on the max fuel screw that has to be removed in order to adjust it.
DariusPri
Posts: 59
Joined: Nov 02, 2016 5:13 PM
Location: Lithuania

Re: White smoke issue

Post by DariusPri »

gadget73 wrote: Aug 26, 2020 8:19 AM maybe a slight leak around the injector to head seal, or cam cover leakage puddling around the injector. If the copper ring wasn't changed when the injector was last out, or if there is any dirt on the injector or head where that ring touches it can leak slightly.

Compression test is still worth doing. One weak cylinder will still start OK but won't burn clean. Either way you'll know for sure if there is a problem.

Ever checked to see how fast the engine builds boost? A lazy turbo will make for more smoke until it starts making pressure. Low boost will also do it. Factory spec is around 10 psi if I remember. If the pump shows any sign that the adjustments have been touched that might also explain it. I think these are supposed to have a collar on the max fuel screw that has to be removed in order to adjust it.
About a couple of years ago shop that checked my injectors said they tweaked the pump and it had some abnormalities like something was filed off but the car wasn't smoking so I didn't pay much attention..
Cap is off
Is there any way I can adjust it factory settings?
kingoftarmace2004
Posts: 102
Joined: Mar 15, 2018 3:34 PM
Location: Fall River Mills

Re: White smoke issue

Post by kingoftarmace2004 »

blueish black smoke is oil/sooty diesel oil. white is usually coolant or unburnt diesel, coolant smells sweet, unburnt diesel smells like diesel. and black "raw diesel" smell is usually over fueling. -Paul
gadget73
Posts: 574
Joined: Nov 22, 2017 11:30 PM
Location: New Jersey

Re: White smoke issue

Post by gadget73 »

no idea what the factory settings are honestly. When my pump was rebuilt it was all set back to whatever the super double secret internal Bosch specs are. No idea if they did it with a flow bench or what. I've never run across a chart with the assorted settings but I assume it exists somewhere. Whatever it was they got it right, the idle speed was even dead on the money.

If it ran clean with the pump set how it is now and it doesn't run clean without anything having moved, I'm guessing adjustment isn't the problem.
Post Reply