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Sharp knock[s] in the bottom when dropping the gas?
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vt



Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Location: Hot Southwest

PostPosted: Sep 24, 2009 5:44 PM    Post subject: Sharp knock[s] in the bottom when dropping the gas? Reply with quote

1st gear, accelerate, sharply drop off the gas - and invariably get a heavy sharp knock somewhere in the bottom, middle to rear. Sometimes it is not one knock, but two or three. Sometimes the knock is delivered if I even gently ease the gas when approaching the curb to park. Doesn't happen on second gear and up (can't be sure, though, this is not my car, I just drove it around the block to diagnose the problem).

So, what does it sound like? I initially thought that was backfire (heard it when the car was driving away), but now that I drove it I would rather think that it's either the drive shaft lash, or, even worse, suspension or diff mount.

Any more clues?

I will have the car on the ramp as soon as I can, it would help if I knew what I should be looking for.
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Coldswede



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Waay up Nawth

PostPosted: Sep 24, 2009 7:04 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd look first at the differential mount. Try backing the car in reverse, a bad diff mount will be much more pronounced in reverse.
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vt



Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Location: Hot Southwest

PostPosted: Sep 24, 2009 7:30 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coldswede wrote:
I'd look first at the differential mount. Try backing the car in reverse, a bad diff mount will be much more pronounced in reverse.


Do you, by chance, mean part #33171125290 at http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?.....13&hg=33&fg=10 ?
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boardsportsrule



Joined: 23 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Sep 24, 2009 7:53 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, that's the part he is refering to, although it can be had for much cheaper than listed on real-oem.

it's quite simple..5bolts to take off, and put back on, and makes a world of difference. As stated above, drive in reverse and see if it happens more, if it does, that's pointing towards diff mount, if not..let us know!
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vt



Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Location: Hot Southwest

PostPosted: Sep 24, 2009 8:09 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dumb question - is the visual inspection of this part when the car is jacked up going to reveal anything?

(my hunch that it won't)

In case it doesn't, am I likely to see anything when I take this part off?
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Tony533i



Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: PA

PostPosted: Sep 24, 2009 8:15 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something else to look at. My car was making the same noise in the same location. Turned out to be the exhaust (Bosal factory style aftermarket replacement) was hitting the body when I took off and then let off the gas. A sharp crack, crack, crack at about the parking brake area. I realigned the exhaust, put the transmission to exhaust bracket back on and the noise was gone. This may not be what yours is but is worth looking at.

Tony
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vt



Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Location: Hot Southwest

PostPosted: Sep 24, 2009 8:35 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony533i wrote:
Something else to look at. My car was making the same noise in the same location. Turned out to be the exhaust (Bosal factory style aftermarket replacement) was hitting the body when I took off and then let off the gas. A sharp crack, crack, crack at about the parking brake area. I realigned the exhaust, put the transmission to exhaust bracket back on and the noise was gone. This may not be what yours is but is worth looking at.

Tony


I will look at that, too, but it seems to me that the sound is not a tin sound the exhaust would make, but a heavy, healthy knock of reasonably sized mass. With some luck, will see tonight.
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2ndeagle



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA

PostPosted: Sep 24, 2009 9:32 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the same problem described. Try the CSB (center support bearing). Bet it's toast. If you can address the problem soon enough, you can save yourself the expense of a driveshaft. Take a look at the transmission bushings while you are under there. If you have to change the CSB, may as well change the trans bushings while you are there. And vice-versa.
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Mike W.



Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Location: Sonoma County, Ca.

PostPosted: Sep 24, 2009 9:45 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

vt wrote:
Dumb question - is the visual inspection of this part when the car is jacked up going to reveal anything?

(my hunch that it won't)

In case it doesn't, am I likely to see anything when I take this part off?


You might have to take it off to tell, but then it would be obvious, it will probably be in two pieces. Make sure you support the diff, but other than that it's just 5 bolts. Easy.
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vt



Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Location: Hot Southwest

PostPosted: Sep 25, 2009 1:53 AM    Post subject: Reply with quote

2ndeagle wrote:
I had the same problem described. Try the CSB (center support bearing). Bet it's toast. If you can address the problem soon enough, you can save yourself the expense of a driveshaft. Take a look at the transmission bushings while you are under there. If you have to change the CSB, may as well change the trans bushings while you are there. And vice-versa.


Did you have vibration before you diagnosed this? This car doesn't have any at all - just the knock when the gas is dropped off.
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wkohler



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Location: Northern Mexico

PostPosted: Sep 25, 2009 2:05 AM    Post subject: Reply with quote

If in fact your diff mount is bad, it will show itself when putting the car in reverse (if a stick, you'll have to accelerate in reverse, of course). A visual inspection will show that the rubber has pulled away from the metal frame. You want the M535i/528e mount at $70, rather than the $2xx 535 mount.

I was thinking center support, but it only seems to happen on deceleration, so there goes that.
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vt



Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Location: Hot Southwest

PostPosted: Sep 25, 2009 12:12 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

wkohler wrote:
If in fact your diff mount is bad, it will show itself when putting the car in reverse (if a stick, you'll have to accelerate in reverse, of course). A visual inspection will show that the rubber has pulled away from the metal frame. You want the M535i/528e mount at $70, rather than the $2xx 535 mount.


Do you know the part #, by chance?

Quote:
I was thinking center support, but it only seems to happen on deceleration, so there goes that.


Well, it *does* happen only upon sharp deceleration - and thanks for giving me that clue, I haven't checked heavy braking, only dropping the gas. My guess would be that if it is the diff mount, braking won't produce anything - or will it?

Hate to be guessing, but didn't have a chance to take a second look at the car - it's still not here yet.
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tn535i



Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Sep 25, 2009 12:22 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

M535 diff mount 33 17 1 129 786 ~$62 when I bought one last but I don't remember where.

Braking won't produce this clunk, only engine brake decceleration or acceleration in reverse, same force on the differential actually. That thing is not so robust in the reverse accel direction and the clunk is probably from when it slaps back into place.
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vt



Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Location: Hot Southwest

PostPosted: Sep 25, 2009 12:46 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

tn535i wrote:
M535 diff mount 33 17 1 129 786 ~$62 when I bought one last but I don't remember where.


Not the first time I hear about replacement parts being better from 528e/M535i (last time it was the exhaust hanger ring, twice as thick) - defies common sense. More expensive and of lesser quality?
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boardsportsrule



Joined: 23 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Sep 25, 2009 1:02 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try checking it in reverse, that should clue you in to CSB or diff mount to check first...eventually you're going to have to climb under the car and get dirty..
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vt



Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Location: Hot Southwest

PostPosted: Sep 25, 2009 1:16 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

boardsportsrule wrote:
eventually you're going to have to climb under the car and get dirty..


Oh, I have no problems with that smile (speaking of which, my other car is opened up right now, waiting for the new window regulator to come).

It's just that the car isn't here, I'm waiting for it to get into my hands so I can stop over-analyzing in vain and do something useful for a change. Waiting is the worst part.
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California Dreamin'



Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Location: Californee

PostPosted: Sep 25, 2009 3:02 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

What car do you have?

If it's not the center support bearing (and I agree with above about accell vs. decel) then the next thing I'd look at is the harmonic balancer. If your car has one - not sure about eta's.
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vt



Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Location: Hot Southwest

PostPosted: Sep 25, 2009 3:06 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

California Dreamin' wrote:
What car do you have?

If it's not the center support bearing (and I agree with above about accell vs. decel) then the next thing I'd look at is the harmonic balancer. If your car has one - not sure about eta's.


It's the DC74 production code 535i: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partgrp.do?model=DC74&mospid=47231
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2ndeagle



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA

PostPosted: Sep 25, 2009 3:51 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

vt wrote:
2ndeagle wrote:
I had the same problem described. Try the CSB (center support bearing). Bet it's toast. If you can address the problem soon enough, you can save yourself the expense of a driveshaft. Take a look at the transmission bushings while you are under there. If you have to change the CSB, may as well change the trans bushings while you are there. And vice-versa.


Did you have vibration before you diagnosed this? This car doesn't have any at all - just the knock when the gas is dropped off.


My cue was the knock upon acceleration from 1st and diminished in 2nd and 3rd. I would often take off in 2nd gear, so that it would not knock. The knocking seemed to come from just behind the two front seats, which could be considered middle to rear, ( this is subjective, as the knocking will resonate across the floor).


Last edited by 2ndeagle on Sep 25, 2009 3:55 PM; edited 1 time in total
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vt



Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Location: Hot Southwest

PostPosted: Sep 25, 2009 3:53 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

2ndeagle wrote:

I guess we cued in on different symptoms. My cue was the knock upon acceleration from 1st and diminished in 2nd and 3rd.


My fault, I should've been more clear. It's not acceleration, and maybe not even deceleration (still have to test that), but just sharply letting the gas go.
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2ndeagle



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA

PostPosted: Sep 25, 2009 3:58 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sounds more like diff, if not attributable to accel or decel. You're going to have to crawl under there. You have the potential problem areas defined, the rest is visual and probing.
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tn535i



Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Sep 25, 2009 5:20 PM    Post subject: Re: Sharp knock[s] in the bottom when dropping the gas? Reply with quote

vt wrote:
1st gear, accelerate, sharply drop off the gas -


Isn't that engine brake decceleration? Same as accelerating in reverse?

House(TV Doc) would say Diff Mount, it never acts up in forward acceleration.

CB/Driveshaft problems occur in either accel or deccel but tend to vary in the noise itself, similar for subframe bushings.
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vt



Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Location: Hot Southwest

PostPosted: Sep 25, 2009 5:45 PM    Post subject: Re: Sharp knock[s] in the bottom when dropping the gas? Reply with quote

tn535i wrote:
vt wrote:
1st gear, accelerate, sharply drop off the gas -


Isn't that engine brake decceleration? Same as accelerating in reverse?


All right, twist my arm.

Quote:

House(TV Doc) would say Diff Mount, it never acts up in forward acceleration.


Just looked at it (by the way, it does give the same distinct knock in reverse ) - well, I don't know if the diff mount is the root cause of this specific problem or not, but it sure looks like it is mostly daed, a.k.a. borked. I'll bite the bullet and order the part.

Timeout till the part comes in and is installed. Thanks for all the wisdom shared.
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wkohler



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Location: Northern Mexico

PostPosted: Sep 25, 2009 5:55 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

MAKE SURE YOU ORDER THIS ONE!

http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.....e/Differential%20Mount
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vt



Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Location: Hot Southwest

PostPosted: Sep 25, 2009 6:07 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

wkohler wrote:
MAKE SURE YOU ORDER THIS ONE!

http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.....e/Differential%20Mount


I did.

Incidentally, it looks just like the dead one smile Guess this happened there before - wonder what is their lifetime.
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